The new movie 300, while depicting the awesome stand at Thermopylae, appears to be another Hollywood attempt at war propoganda (i.e the "free" western world -USA- versus Persia, AKA the evil, non-semetic, middle east).
Sparta, in truth, has its most modern incarnation in National Socialist Germany.
I'm just looking for intelligent dicussion here. Folks who haven't read Herodotus or don't have a solid understanding of the historical Sparta may want to lurk intially.

Don't forget Salamis. The Athenians were in on it too.

No doubt rkjmd. Some might say Salamis was even more impressive a battle - especially in terms of results/victory. But... The point I'm hoping to get a topic going on is the use of real/actual Western heroics to justify/inspire the current war. I hope to,
1). by virtue of historical fact, disprove the idea that such great battles such as Thermopylae or (as rkjmd pointed out) Salamis were based on/fought for the ideals now presented as "the American way of life".
2). Point out the inherent moral/ethical problems with utilizing what might be considered as "sacred history" to justify the standard American attitude towards this war.

PS- Yes, this might, at first, sound like a political opinion, which I agree has no place on the philosophy forum. But, I maintain that the points raised are only in relation to ETHICS - which do belong here.

Please discuss.

Political opinions are a matter for Ethics ... always...

^yes all political talk is a matter of ethics but not all ethics talk is necessarily a matter of political talk, right?

Anyway, I don't agree with the notion that the movie is war propaganda. I don't think Miller had that in mind back in 99 (i think) when he wrote it.

Miller might not have done propaganda when he wrote it - the movie might still well be done exactly for that purpose...

I got  a bit of the same feeling.. there was alot of this typical "freedom"-talk. But I still loved the movie because of  the beautiful scenes and all the fighting, and I will for sure see it soon again.

nothing really different propaganda in storytelling has been going on forever

you know united states founding fathers were slave owners?

dont know about you but i cant trust a man who thinks he can own another man as property...

300 is amazing when you remind yourself its a movie version of a comic book.

its over the top because its a movie of a storytelling. throughout history there have been people able to weave fantastic adventures through words alone. the guy is telling the story to get all the soldiers rilled up.

pretty sure they didnt really fight rhinos one on but makes for a fantastic campfire story

^about slave owning, that is a chapter that has bothered me since forever; i mean bothered me philosophically. Even Socrates had slaves, or at least accepted them. Can I thus say that I can't accept his moral judgments as a consequence of that? Can I say, thus, that he was an unethical person? I really don't know how to answer that. Both type of answers have their own flaws. Perhaps virtue is context relative...

Slaves were always a source of cheap labor. Humane treatment of investments can never mitigate the greedy profits at the cost of freedom. It wasn't their selfishness that disturbs me. It was the fact that they so restricted others from pursuing their own making the gun and whip more effective than the dollar.

I saw simliarities to a master race ideal in 300 as I watched it also.

I must say that as soon as an actor yells the word freedom on screen I tune out.