Squats on a Smith Machine?

My gym has no squat rack.

The most weight I can safely lift from the ground to over my head is 60kg.

Which I can then squat easily.

I understand that doing heavy weighted squats on a smith machine is bad for your back.

But I'd like to ask the folks here for their opinion on squatting with a smith machine.

Thanks.

Never used a smith machine to squat but do you have dumbells you could use instead?

Good idea.

Not sure how easy I'll be able to hold 40-50kg dumbells however.

don't like how it limit you to one plane

Yeah that would be tough Joe. Straps would help but still could be a problem.

So I should just do deadlifts instead of heavy squats?

you might try squatting really low and then jumping as high as you can about 20 times.

With a 60 kg barbell on my back?

Are you serious?

banjohaze - you might try squatting really low and then jumping as high as you can about 20 times.


In all seriousness, that's what Mark Rippetoe recommends for guys who are traveling and don't have access to a rack or cage or even any weights at all. I doubt he'd recommend it long term, though :-P

And no, no 60 kg BB on your back, just jump as explosively as you can (from a deep position, if not ATG) for 20 reps.

None So Blind - 
banjohaze - you might try squatting really low and then jumping as high as you can about 20 times.


In all seriousness, that's what Mark Rippetoe recommends for guys who are traveling and don't have access to a rack or cage or even any weights at all. I doubt he'd recommend it long term, though :-P

And no, no 60 kg BB on your back, just jump as explosively as you can (from a deep position, if not ATG) for 20 reps.

can you OH squat 60kg? that'd be a great substitute if you can't.

i use the smith machine for front squats. they seem to be a good alternative, don't seem to cause me any back issues.

Work on your power clean, you should be able to rack decent weights after a while and for front squats.

In the meantime, deadlift and leg press.

You could also give barbell hack-squats a try.

I don't think the Smith is really a training hazard so much as it is unproductive. The Smith limits ROM which limits recruitment.

Most people I see on the smith are doing partial movements. It would only really force your joints into poor alignment if you 'tried' to work through a full ROM.

Doing squats in Smith is more like doing partial leg-presses standing up. May as well use the leg press, it's more comfortable.


Doing squats in Smith is more like doing partial leg-presses standing up. May as well use the leg press, it's more comfortable.


That was my thoughts

Deep smith squats are very challenging and certainly overload the quads (a favorite of Dorian Yates) but don't do much for the hamstrings and can create shearing forces across the knee cap. If done properly, however dangerous they may be, there is no denying that smith machine squats build muscle and strength in the lower body.

Thanks for all responses.

I'll give them a go but I won't be doing deep squats. Not even getting my thighs parallel with the ground like I would normally do with regular squats.

Gym's love the smith machine because of the "safety factor". Equipment cost is generally higher for equal quality smith machine than it is for a power cage, but insurance rates tend to drop when smith machines are included in the offered equipment of the gym since they are considered to be "safer".

IMO, for squats, the Smith Machine should be avoided when other options are available by those who are not currently rehabilitating from a significant injury, as the rehabilitation scene is where a lot of the popularity of the smith machine grew. For somebody returning from a major knee surgery/injury where knee stability/ROM is an issue, the smith machine MAY have some benefits during rehab due to the decreased need for stability and maybe to help break a mental barrier of a patient fearing to get under a bar after the surgery. Even then, I'd still recommend a slower progression of natural, full motion squats with other external assistance to keep the proper motor patterns and muscle recruitment.

The safety issue isn't astronomical with the smith machine, but it is present and creates an efficiency and result issue. Some people can claim that they maintained numbers, etc, but I doubt if somebody solely trained on smith machines that the numbers would reflect the same during a free weight movement. My biggest concern injury wise with the smith machine is the same as it is for all machine based movements - overload and overuse of the same joint angle and patterns. During a free weight squat, you have a variance of how your body becomes positioned, you have the stabilizing musculature fully activated, and you aren't forced to move through the exact same plane of motion each rep. With the smith machine, there is no variance (unless you move your feet which then would probably result is horrendous technique and added load to your low back or other joint) and you are forced to move through the same plane of motion usually resulting in excessive shearing forces at the knee. Over time, this can develop some long term chronic issues.

Other issues I have, which are performance based and "down the road" injured based, include that the stabilizing musculature does not get activated properly, the ROM suffers, and you are enforcing improper, perturbed motor patterns in the body. Back squats are an AMAZING exercise but just aren't ideal with a smith machine. There are alternate exercises that can be utilized until a better solution (new gym, better equipment, etc) comes along.

If you try to squat with your feet in a normal position, this is what the starting position ends up looking like (http://www.drivelinebaseball.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/smithmachine.jpg) and as you can see with the fixed bar line, it is impossible to create a proper squat. I don't disagree that one can feel that smith machine squats can build great quad size and isolated strength, especially when done with feet walked far out in front of the machine (http://marilynrh.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/smith-machine-squats-3.jpg), but you are taking the majority of hip extension out of the lift and again developing improper motor patterns. If your goal is quad specific hypertrophy smith machine squats may be an option if you don't have the option to free weight squat, but there are still better exercises to get more "bang for your buck", including the leg press and single leg variations.

What are you ultimate goals OP? Are you lifting for athletic purposes or just to "look good nekkid"

Strengthening legs, specifically glutes.

I have problems with leg stability that prevent me from running and need to strengthen the gluteal area.

Here's a bizarre observation:

I squatted seriously last year for perhaps the first time in my life, doing Rippetoe's "low back squat" variation. I think my form on it is passable, though it's a constant struggle to maintain good form each rep.

I remember from a few times early last year when I used a smith machine (my gym has two power cages, and sometimes assholes monopolize the things for hours, so I either use smith or else don't squat). I noticed that I could do 20-40 pounds more on the smith. Seemed to make sense to me, the bar isn't part of the equation as much, plus I suppose since you're not stabilizing the weight you may have some extra muscle to go to lifting the weight.

Fast forward to this Monday. Same thing, assholes in the cages doing 15 set deadlifts and leaned rows and other silly shit. I squatted on the smith, and getting the weight up seemed harder than it should have (though I finished my 3x5). It was the same weight I had done the previous Friday, and had done with some ease.

Jump to Wednesday, I squatted again, this time properly. I was able to add 20 pounds instead of the expected 5. It simply "felt" better. I surmise that since I have kind of a groove with doing Rippetoe style squats, and the smith machine is not very amenable to that, I was actually able to squat MORE when not on it. I was quite surprised....