I really feel there is a bad trend going on in todays MMA. It begins with the lure that everyone wants to see standup wars. (go watch k-1) Organizations over time have implemented the standup rule as soon as the fights become "boring" on the ground. (go fuck yourself) You even hear announcers constantly in the UFC say to just tie the opponent up so they get stood up. (is this what we want?) The fighter on the bottom knowing full well that if he just holds on for dear life that he will be granted a free "artificial" standup. Which is total BS. It just rewards and gives incentive for stalling the fight if you don't want to be on your back and just promotes even more boring groundfights and compounds everything. I REALLY wish the UFC would realize this. At least in PRIDE they combat this with quick to the point yellow cards for whoever is stalling the fight. Be it top, bottom or both. Coupled with a %10 dock in pay I really think this helps to liven up the ground game.
BTW this has nothing to do with UFC vs. PRIDE. It's just the evolution of MMA is really steering in the wrong direction of it's original intention in order to please the mainstream. It's losing many fans in the process but I guess if they are gaining more than that is there choice as businessmen. Which has always been a fear of mine and many other hardcore fans I know. Sure we all want MMA to be a successful sport but if the final product doesn't represent anything close to the original intention in order to get to the point of mainstream than have we really gained anything at all. (as hardcore fans)
TTT for the correctness of it all.
Wow, why don't you right this logically on other forums wasabi :).
Spanklock: No worries, just go watch something else bro', obviously technique and the application of it isn't your bag.
I wish there was kickboxing with nhb gloves to watch :(.
Pulsar is correct. If you want to see stand-up go watch boxing or K1. This is MMA and ground fighting should be a big part of it. Ban stand-ups.
There's not "a problem" with true fans of the sport. Just the people who think every groundfight has to be balls to walls n transitions and sub attempts in order to keep the fight there. All the while strikers are allowed to dance around all fight long and pick and choose THERE moments as they please and sprawl and stall and point fight from standing all fucking fight long and people don't say shit! Well some do but not NEARLY on the level as the groundfighting and it is EVERY bit as frequent.
So you try to look to influence these types of lulls in the action by some type of rule. Artificially standing the fighters up is not the answer. Then the fighter is not fighting on his own. He is fighting with the aid of the referee and rulebook which totally removes the integrity of the fight. Should a figher that is being stalled and brawled be allowed to have and artificial switch of position to take the fight to the ground since he can't get it there himself? Then why should the standup fighter be allowed to be stood up when he can't keep it up on his own?
Here's a thought: Actually train to get up from the ground if you don't like it there. Let's say some great striker get's taken down very early in the round and he knows that if he holds on for dear life for two minutes that he will granted a free stanup. Although he didn't do anything on his own or earn anything he is granted a standup with little or no damage done and hardly even looks bad factoring in the decision. But is it right???
Let's say that say great striker gets taken down early in the round but there are no options for the ref to stand the fighter up. Now the fighter MUST bust his ass to (gasp) GET OUT ON HIS OWN. Or be forced to sit there and get his ass kicked and look bad in the decision. Then when you have these fighters actually trying to get out on there own it will create "exciting " transitions and numerous sub attempts. Many of the pure strikers will be submitted now that they can't sit and just hold on which makes for more exciting groundwork. It's something in there game they will have to improve just as the grapplers are improving their standup. Holding on is not the answer as it just makes for boring fights.
pulsar and streetpunk are correct.
It's people like these other guys who are honestly ruining the sport in my opinion.
How did you guys who hate groundfighting even get involved in MMA? Why not just watch boxing or kickboxing or K-1 or San Shou or whatever. Let's just leave MMA for the people who like all aspects of the fight game. Not just standup looping haymakers.
Note: I love to watch Boxing, Kickboxing, K-1 and San Shou, everything. When I want to watch MMA, I want to friggin watch MMA. Not some watered down bullshit that satisfies the mainstreamers.
spanklock... Yeah, glad it's US thinking of the fuckin' homo signifigance.
Why don't you get your sorry ass to the gym and tell 'x' grappler that his 'dryhumping' is a waste of time...?
"Just the people who think every groundfight has to be balls to walls n transitions and sub attempts in order to keep the fight there. All the while strikers are allowed to dance around all fight long and pick and choose THERE moments as they please and sprawl and stall and point fight from standing all fucking fight long and people don't say shit!"
Wasabi should post more often, that's exactly it.
In my mind, I know with the ground game, it can end at ANY moment, part of the joy really... With the sprawl and brawlers, they sit back and just wait. I'd prefer watching a technical grapple, than guys standing around trying to look good throwing usless fucking pawing jabs out.
I watch MMA for the reality, heart and technique on display... If I want KO's I watch K-1 Max, or boxing... If I want thugs 'throwing down' I'll watch toughman.
Totally agree with wasabi.
Would stand and applaud his post, but I don't think he'd like it. ;-)
I love ground fighting, its my base, but there are plenty of fights that need standups. see pulver vs. hallman for prime examples.
well, given that there are rules (and no rules will lead to assholes injuring people like Nakai (althought that tournie had rules!))...
you must have some amount of standups as Hallman vs. Pulver was painful to watch, and I enjoy watching wrestling! (which is damn exciting due to the pace)
But TOO many standups and it is lame lame lame.
Pride is definitely doing a good thing in that the stalling guy gets penalized, but I don't like how the result is always a standup. If you are stalling on the bottom, get a yellow card (lose 10%) and give the non-penalized player a choice. If you are stalling on top, the guy on the bottom should get a choice.
That is much better than always standing them up IMO (the UFC sucks because stalling leads to winning these days as the point system that New Jersey came up with blows (seriously, break it down, it blows)).
ps. I enjoy watching the UFC, so I mean the rules that the UFC is forced to use in terms of judging fights blows (although Pride needs to add a lot more consistency to their ruling as well).
ttt for the correctness and the false 'evolution' of MMA.
"The fighter on the bottom knowing full well that if he just holds on for dear life that he will be granted a free "artificial" standup."
I agree with the artificial standup thing. It may make the fights more action oriented but if a fighter can`t get up off his back on his own then he is getting a gift standup. You can train all you want to but if you can`t get up off of you ass on your own then all your training was useless because you can`t use it if you can`t get up or out from under someone.
It also takes away from the scramble to get to your feet and the risks , chances and mistakes the fighter on bottom has to take if he wants to do something besides lay on his back and be dominated by someone who won`t let you up.
Another thing I hate when a fighter is working at staying busy and not stalling but the fight gets stood back up anyway so the favorite fighter on bottom can get back to his feet . It is unfair and favoritism usually plays a roll and sometimes affects the outcomes of fights .
There are many instances that standups are good to keep the action going but you're right that some sort of punishment should be dished out ala yellow card to discourage fighters from stalling to get back to their feet.
if there are two boring strikers, should they stop the fight and put them on the ground?
"I really feel there is a bad trend going on in todays MMA. It begins with the lure that everyone wants to see standup wars. (go watch k-1)"
Alright, BRO... we'll just cheer on the fighters when they stop with the jiu jitsu & start the dryhumping. And when fans ask us what the fuck we're cheering about when it comes to two guys rolling around lovingly on the floor of a cage, we will "further educate them about the 'sport'".
I bet Ricco is your favorite fighter.
You know, I hear they make tapes for guys who like to watch men hug. However, they have nothing to do with Mixed Martial Arts, or the sport.
I've got about 15 more choice responses for this stupid, stupid thread... but unfortunately it's teetering on a flame as it is. Man... could I unload on you, son.
I tend to agree, but then again, I'm not a huge fan of splitting the fight into rounds either...