Stopping the Firemans?

I'm new to judo and coming back after a long lay off due to an arm dislocation. Basically, I got hit with a firemans carry and landed weird on my arm.

In this highlight of Jose and Dave Camarillo (, Jose does the exact same move on his opponent in the first match and you can see the arm gets kind of twisted funny even in this throw. Now, I know in no way shape or form could I stop someone of that caliber doing that move on me, but I was hoping I could get some advice on it.

  1. How would the much, much more experienced judoka on this forum prevent or even stop that throw?

  2. If the throw is already initiated, is the best thing to do to roll forward and not try to base?

Thanks in advance

ummmm, sure, but we can we please also live in reality and realize that
nobody, even Takimoto, has perfect posture all the time...

kataguruma can be countered or stopped by an odd version of taniotoshi,
sprawls, handstands, kartwheels, push-overs/bull-rushing, etc..

do you have the time to explain how to stop it with tani-otoshi or is it too much of a pain to explain as opposed to demonstrating (which I completely understand)? thanks.

ummmmm. i can "try"..

  1. tori is right handed and dropping/rotating to his right.
  2. as tori's knees hit the mat uke pushes to his own right (which would be to tori's back).
  3. uke's left hand has to stop tori's forward mometum and kuzushi, usually by pulling up and into tori's face.
  4. uke'sright leg comes behind tori and "cuts" him across his lower back, thus sweeping/pushing/blocking his body into the mat.

it looks like you are doing a tani-otoshi/kosoto hybrid on a dwarf (no

My experience with countering kataguruma was almost always as me
being a lefty and uke being a righty. RvR or LvL is different becuase
the grips are not the same. But, the basic premise remains.

you very much have to anticipate this counter, just like any other.
Counters do not happen by reflex, they happen beucause you expect it
and are preparred for it and even bait it.

trying something like this as a reflex just might get you blasted
through the Earth's thin layer of crust and form a new volcanic opening
in the middle of a gymnasium... which, while cool to imagine, might
ruin the entire day for a few people.


Awesome advice as always. As far as breakfalls, whats' the most important thing to remember to prevent getting your arm dislocated? It seems pretty instinctive to base out?

dont ver reach for the mat. it will hit you eventually one way or the other.

thanks! lol at the more colorful parts of your description by the way, great advice, thanks again.

if i am here for anything, it is to entertain and edumakate.

both are quite good. alcohol can drown out any pain.

Alcohol, the solute and solvent of all life's problems.


helping white men dance since BC...?

I've never been thrown with it until I started practicing with German Velasco.  When its in deep and a someone knows all the counters, it is hard as hell to get out.  With a good fireman person like German, he "rides" and flows with your body's motion as you counter and MAKES SURE YOU end up on your back.

I have a sweet armbar counter that I use


Well I was one of the guys on that video that Jose threw at that tournament with the fireman's and I am a fireman and sheet we don't carry people like that - we DRAG em out lol.

By the way the video isn't playing correctly so I'm not sure if you were referring to me but when he threw me my arm was not twisted in any manner whatsoever although I seem to recall trying to stop it by posting my other arm or something. If I could see the video my memory would be refreshed. It was definitely a low risk throw.

When we practiced katagaruma in class 3 guys hurt their shoulders. And we were doing it from our knees.
Don't know if it was uke's or tori's fault. So we stopped.

It's more of a roll than a throw. Maybe uke isn't rolling tori but dropping him like a throw...