Strategy for JUDO tournament

Underground
1

I have been training in BJJ for 6 years and participated in a a few (4-5) BJJ competitions from 2002 to 2004. Currently there are no BJJ or submission grappling tournaments where I live so we are thinking of entering a national JUDO competition.

I don't want this thread to end up recycling the same things over and over (i.e. whether JUDO or BJJ is best, whether guard originated from JUDO etc) and become boring, but I have some questions regarding strategy and mainly the rules:

  1. What would be a good strategy for someone with pure BJJ experience and a good guard who also trains standup but nowhere near the extend a good black belt JUDOKA does? Do I just pull guard or do I look for a wrestling takedown (e.g. single leg or fireman)?

  2. If I keep pulling guard and the opponent backs out will the referee keep bringing me back on my feet?

  3. What if I pull guard and immediately sweep my opponent? Will the referee let the fight go? If yes, how much time do I have to look for a submission?

  4. What if I pull guard, immediately go for the armlock, the armlock is deep and almost there and the opponent stands up and hangs on with pure strength? Will the referee separate us and start again on our feet?

  5. If I get taken down with a low score (not IPPON) and manage to put the guy in my halfguard, does the 30s hold apply immediately or the opponent needs to pass the halfguard ... or we are simply ordered to go back on our feet?

I know JUDO has very clear rules and you don't really get a lot of chances to work for submissions on the ground, however we'd like to give it a go ...

Any advice from someone with BJJ background and JUDO competition experience will be highly appreciated.

Thanks.

2

i believe they will penalize you for pulling guard straight out.

youd have to mask it as a half ass throw or flying armbar attempt.

3

Factor in that the ref will probably not understand your strategy and if you play anything other than a traditional Judo strategy, you will get penalized.

I have seen people drop down and then sit up and go for a single only to have the ref stop it as the other guy was hopping around on one leg trying not to get swept.

4

If you pull guard while he has hands on your gi(which he will) then you will lose to ippon.

5

"Factor in that the ref will probably not understand your strategy" This is silly, the ref was following the rules regarding non normal grips.

It is illegal to sit to guard, it is considered stalling. In order to stay on the ground you must be making continuous progress (realistically this often means continuous very rapid progress). And if you grab someones leg you must attack them within 3-5 seconds, it is very easy to get penalized if you hold on to the leg for too long.

If you want to end up on the ground and you are determined to not throw your opponent you can do a bad Tome-Nage (James Bond foot in the stomach flip them over your head throw) and then immediately go into ground work. Note that this is also against the rules and falls under the category of "False Attack" where you go for this move over and over in an effort to not have to engage your opponent on the feet. This however might take longer to get called then some of your other rules violations.

The other thing you could do is try to learn some throws, and maybe some defense on your feet. One critical skill that will help a great deal and is relatively quick to develop is to not land on your back while thrown, but twist so you are on your side or even better all fours. As soon as you hit and it is clear that you were not thrown on your back you can turn to your guard and start attacking.

6

"1. What would be a good strategy for someone with pure BJJ experience and a good guard who also trains standup but nowhere near the extend a good black belt JUDOKA does? Do I just pull guard or do I look for a wrestling takedown (e.g. single leg or fireman)?

  1. If I keep pulling guard and the opponent backs out will the referee keep bringing me back on my feet?

  2. What if I pull guard and immediately sweep my opponent? Will the referee let the fight go? If yes, how much time do I have to look for a submission?

  3. What if I pull guard, immediately go for the armlock, the armlock is deep and almost there and the opponent stands up and hangs on with pure strength? Will the referee separate us and start again on our feet?

  4. If I get taken down with a low score (not IPPON) and manage to put the guy in my halfguard, does the 30s hold apply immediately or the opponent needs to pass the halfguard ... or we are simply ordered to go back on our feet? "

I'm a BJJ Blue who started doing Judo a few months back. I've been in the one comp (quite a few matches) and here's my answers to your questions:

1 - The firemans is probably a poor choice, Judo players learn this throw (Kata Guruma) very early on. The single and double (Marote Gari) are probably better choices. In my case, every time I shot, I barreled them into the safety area where we were immediately restarted standing. I figured out pretty quick to back up before shooting.

2 - You will penalised (Shido) for pulling guard without an attacking technique.

3 - See 2. The ref will want to see an attack, not a sweep.

4 - If your shoulders leave the mat - 'matte' (stop) and start standing. I had one guy in a DEEP armbar, he managed to stand and got the restart. Things to remember: Pressure on the head with the leg, and hook one leg FAST.

5 - Osaekomi (pinning) only applies when clear of the legs. You could probably keep stationary 1/2 guard for a few seconds before matte. If in 1/2 guard, look for a sweep or attack immediately.

In my case, I lost several matches to ippon because my standup is junk. When I did get them to the ground, I lost one armbar and one omo plata to standup matte and a rear naked choke because my opponent crawled off the mat whilst 'defending' (grabbing near my hands and kicking for dear life). In the end, I just thought - 'Fuck it. Just do Judo'.

7

"i believe they will penalize you for pulling guard straight out.

youd have to mask it as a half ass throw or flying armbar attempt."

While I may be wrong (since I'm not a judoka) but I believe flying attacks are illegal in judo. In Dave Camarillo's book, Guerilla Jiu Jitsu, he claims that more or less they were made illegal due to him.

8

It seems to be up for debate whether or not flying attacks are legal or not. It may even vary depending on the tournament.

I think though that the way the Cammarillo bros do it the guys arm is extended before he hits the ground...this would not give you enough time to signal defeat.

9

Why not try to partipate in the Judo competition. Instead of trying to game the system, give it a shot. You may get your butt kicked but your overall game will get better for bjj tournaments.

You learn more from losing a match than winning.

10

get used to the ref calling "shido!"

11

i) first question, what belt level are you going to fight at? just because you have 6 yrs BJJ does not mean you can fight BBs. yes some BBs are rec players and "suck", but others have been BB for years and they may even cross train BJJ ... not unheard of these days! Besides, i believe you also need to be registered through one of the national judo assoc to fight at BB ... not sure about the details in the USA, but here in Canada, you sure can't walk in and fight at BB with the proper credentials/registrations.

ii) Start at a lower belt level first to LEARN. Think of the reverse: Dave Camrillo, Rhadi Ferguson, Celita Schutz, etc ... were all NATIONAL LEVEL judoka in the USA, but started in BJJ comps at blue belt level!

iii) goto judoinfo.com, read about judo Competitions and the rules. it pretty much addresses most of your questions.

iv) really surprised no one mentioned it, but #1 is grip fighting. at the lower levels of judo and many BJJ comps, people just come and grip each other. good luck with that sort of tactic vs. experienced judoka. learn to fight for grips, and to throw from particular grips. your goal is to get the grip you want and throw, if you don't get it, disengage and start again.

v) practice your breakfalls alot ... don't underestimate this

vi) practice some throw combinations ALOT. most BJJ schools teach throws in isolation, ie. a hip throw, or an osoto ... well do you fight BJJ with isolated attacks? maybe when you were a WB and went full bore for say an armbar, but as you got more experienced, what did you do? ATTACK IN COMBINATION, USE SET-UPS, FAKES, COUNTERS, etc. What do you think good judoka do?

vii) if you don't know throws, get Dave Camarillo's book Guerilla Jiu Jitsu. although most of it is really just judo, the impact control stuff is explained much better than any other judo book out there ... actually i haven't seen another book cover it. the flying attacks are cool as well, but learn the basics first.

viii) play judo ... don't do stuff like stuff like pulling guard, jumpin guard, faking sacrifice throws in a judo comp ... they will get you nowhere in a judo comp ... maybe only against a few guys, but thats it.

btw: i'm a judo BB and BJJ blue

12

I understand that there are no BJJ tournaments around, but if you're gonna compete in Judo you might aswell train in Judo and play some Judo. It doesnt sound like you have alot to prove on the ground with them, perhaps you have more to gain standing.

...and so what if you lose?

13

If it were me I would not clinch my opponent; I'd shoot for singles, doubles, etc. And if my opponent somehow clinched me, I'd immediately (almost instantaneously) drop for a single, double, etc. Judokas are dangerous from the clinch, especially if you have no real takedown/standing experience. That's mainly what these guys do. Know what I mean?