if the 155 lb contenders fought the +185 lb ultimate fighters in pure striking matches with nhb gloves and no grappling / submissions allowed, who would win more matches?
Does the fight include kicks?
kicks, knees, and elbows while standing would be allowed.
clinches would be broken up immediately.
by those rules, the TUF guys get smoked. allow clinch fighting, and that changes the game a lot.
also, the 185 pounders are all grapplers anyway, aren't they?
I would say a couple of wins per team depending on who fought who.
with kicks, knees etc. TUF would win a couple but Contenders would kill most of em in striking with out a doubt.
Regular Ditka or Mini-Ditka?
The Contenders would smoke em.
"Boxers hate to be kicked and are wide open for them. I think it would be a 50/50 win loss for both."
it can be very tough to box against a guy with good teep/leg kick combinations. but guys like koschek do not have good teep/leg kick combos. the contenders would swarm them and wreck them by these rules.
"Also if knee's are allowed then you need to clinch alittle.
IMO
Steele"
like i said, those rules suck for the TUF guys, very hard to be effective with knees without clinching. you're taking some big weapons away from them.
It depends on the TUF fighter who is fighting.
The strikers at 185 wouldn't have any problems, but guys like Diego would have problems.
He is totally all about grappling and would lose quickly against all of the Contender fighters.
But anyone with more than rudimentary striking skills would win in a striking match if kicks, knees, and elbows are legal.
People claim that they do not see much knockout power, but how well can you assess that by observation? Consider, especially, that all of those guys are excellent with defensive head movement and footwork, which takes away a great deal of any blow thrown at them.
People severely underestimate the pressure a boxer can put on someone. Even with kicks, a good, aggressive boxer with a good jab and excellent defensive movement would tear just about anyone from TUF apart. Striking against an excellent boxer is a mistake, IMO, unless you are an outstanding muay Thai fighter...
"But anyone with more than rudimentary striking skills would win in a striking match if kicks, knees, and elbows are legal."
do you really think that any fighter with "rudimentary" striking skills with kicks knees and elbows can guarantee a victory of a #3 world middleweight like peter manfredo? good luck trying that!
"Especially against that sorry lot on TUF"
I'm very, very sure that Forrest, Kenny Florian, and a few others would rape you. And I just saw Kenny working standup tonight, he looked pretty damn smooth to me.
"Leben, would do fine, but some here are right most of the TUF guys are ground fighters."
leben would get CRUSHED by a good boxer, by those rules. his slugger style is actually much better against guys who don't have legit striking skills. have you seen the way he throws? he wouldn't catch these guys with those bombs, and they would rip him apart with accurate counterpunching and combinations.
"But I have talked to Boxers about the 4oz. gloves and they think we are crazy. NHB guys are acustomed to those gloves, boxers are not."
boxers are much more accustomed to being hit, period. the contenders probably have MUCH better chins on average the the TUF guys. the small gloves do not advantage the TUF guys, it just makes the boxers best weapons more dangerous.
lol at the sorry lot?
Steele"
I think good boxers are underestuimated too on the forum.
But whoever said the guys on TUF are lowly is crazy.
A guys like Koscheck might not look like much, but being an NCAA champion takes a lot more skill, dedication, & heart than a lot of the people on Contender have.
I'm not saying all, but most.
"I'm very, very sure that Forrest, Kenny Florian, and a few others would rape you. And I just saw Kenny working standup tonight, he looked pretty damn smooth to me."
forrest would do well, but he isn't a 185 pounder, the guys we're talking about.
florian does have legit striking skills. but it's pretty sad when the best striker the TUF guys can come up with is their jiu jitsu expert.
i'll bow to your superior knowledge of lebens skills. but i think people are spending too much time asking "how will the boxer stop the leg kicks" and not enough time asking "how will these guys keep the boxers from knocking their blocks off?"
these guys are GOOD, and the difference between lebens punching skills and theirs is HUGE.
it's a stupid arguement.
without clinch fighting, these guys would just swarm the TUF fighters until they got their (early) knockout. good luck stopping them with the SINGLE leg kick they will land prior to being KOed. unless these guys had really good push kicks. MT guys have good push kicks. not many MMA guys do.
"True enough, but Leben has a good chin and heart, two things you need to beat a better boxer. With the weight advantage he has I stick by him. I think he would do well. But no I dont think all of them would. "
will can beat skill, but only if you have enough skill to test the other mans will. leben doesn't. his rock like chin carries him against less versatile, experienced strikers, but these can just go downstairs and drop him with liver punches if they can't dent his skull.
"a lot of guys have good chins. nobody has a good liver" - wise boxing coach.