Sub only = no guard passing?

Watched most of EBI last night and couldn't help but notice that over the entire night there were maybe 3 or 4 guard passes. Most guys were either intent on staying on bottom or dropping for leg locks. Is this is because most guys don't view side control and/or mount as a strong finishing position? I totally understand most of the competitors had phenomenal guards and passing is easier said than done but there really didn't seem to be much effort at all. Phone Post 3.0

This is the main drawback of sub only.

Don't get me wrong...It can be fun to watch, especially for the less knowledgable crowd due to all the movement...and I think there's a legit place for it from both an entertainment perspective and from a "go for the kill" mentality. However, I don't think it should be a replacement for rewarding dominant positions. 

I think copa podio's done a good job of rewarding position but also incentivizing action and going for subs. Not just the shorter matches but needing to win be a certain amount of pts. or a sub in order to advance.

 

Meatgrinder -


This is the main drawback of sub only.



Don't get me wrong...It can be fun to watch, especially for the less knowledgable crowd due to all the movement...and I think there's a legit place for it from both an entertainment perspective and from a "go for the kill" mentality. However, I don't think it should be a replacement for rewarding dominant positions. 



I think copa podio's done a good job of rewarding position but also incentivizing action and going for subs. Not just the shorter matches but needing to win be a certain amount of pts. or a sub in order to advance.



 

Maybe I'm weird but I love watching a well-earned guard pass or a sweep. I see a lot of sub only matches turn into patty cake with one guy standing and one guy on his ass. Phone Post 3.0

I was thinking the same today. I'd rather see a good pass or a sweep than someone starting on the back and then getting a "submission". It's not the same. Phone Post 3.0

Meatgrinder -


This is the main drawback of sub only.



Don't get me wrong...It can be fun to watch, especially for the less knowledgable crowd due to all the movement...and I think there's a legit place for it from both an entertainment perspective and from a "go for the kill" mentality. However, I don't think it should be a replacement for rewarding dominant positions. 



I think copa podio's done a good job of rewarding position but also incentivizing action and going for subs. Not just the shorter matches but needing to win be a certain amount of pts. or a sub in order to advance.



 

Agree Phone Post 3.0

recovering - I was thinking the same today. I'd rather see a good pass or a sweep than someone starting on the back and then getting a "submission". It's not the same. Phone Post 3.0
Sure, but you probably train bjj. To the average UFC fan guard passes are almost meaningless, they want to see subs. That's the market EBI is going after Phone Post 3.0

burner22 -
recovering - I was thinking the same today. I'd rather see a good pass or a sweep than someone starting on the back and then getting a "submission". It's not the same. Phone Post 3.0
Sure, but you probably train bjj. To the average UFC fan guard passes are almost meaningless, they want to see subs. That's the market EBI is going after Phone Post 3.0
Is it? Phone Post 3.0

I still like to think of bjj having self defense/fighting application.

While sub only events on paper sound bad ass- the reality is that many of the positions and matches have even less fighting application compared with matches that reward achieving dominant positions (points).

Watching eddie cummings vs sergio hernandez right now shit's a bit ridiculous

Hernandez is flopping around like a seal, eddie butt scooting

It also has to do with who the competitor is. Saulo vs cumprido looked nothing like a butt scoot fest Phone Post 3.0

flemingo -

Watching eddie cummings vs sergio hernandez right now shit's a bit ridiculous

Hernandez is flopping around like a seal, eddie butt scooting

I was shocked at Denny P's first match. He had no interest in trying to pass at all Phone Post 3.0

geo martinez passed a few times though

flemingo -

geo martinez passed a few times though

Rafael domingos was trying to pass a fair bit too Phone Post 3.0

DomenicVelluso -
burner22 -
recovering - I was thinking the same today. I'd rather see a good pass or a sweep than someone starting on the back and then getting a "submission". It's not the same. Phone Post 3.0
Sure, but you probably train bjj. To the average UFC fan guard passes are almost meaningless, they want to see subs. That's the market EBI is going after Phone Post 3.0
Is it? Phone Post 3.0
Definitely. If they get 10% of the UFC fan base to pay attention they will have a bigger audience than any other bjj event Phone Post 3.0

The difference here is there are some guards that aren't worth the effort to pass. This philosophy only applies to sub only. A very good guard usually involves the guard player to expose his legs to attacks every so often so it makes more sense to take the attack that presents itself. You can have this mentality in points tournaments due mainly to many leg attacks being illegal and the potential loss of position/points or advantages. Most good leg lockers don't lose position after a failed attempt. Phone Post 3.0

My god this autocorrect fucked that post. Phone Post 3.0

While I also don't really like that sub only strategy seems to often ditch position over chasing subs, it depends on the grappler. At EBI 6, Rustam Chsiev and Yuri Simoes put on passing clinics. Phone Post 3.0

Animal Mother - The difference here is there are some guards that aren't worth the effort to pass. This philosophy only applies to sub only. A very good guard usually involves the guard player to expose his legs to attacks every so often so it makes more sense to take the attack that presents itself. You can have this mentality in points tournaments due mainly to many leg attacks being illegal and the potential loss of position/points or advantages. Most good leg lockers don't lose position after a failed attempt. Phone Post 3.0
It also applies to mma, albeit for slightly different reasons Phone Post 3.0

Clean passes to side control aren't particularly common at the top end of any no-gi grappling rulseset. Even less common to see side control held and used to set up a sub.

Easters -
Meatgrinder -


This is the main drawback of sub only.



Don't get me wrong...It can be fun to watch, especially for the less knowledgable crowd due to all the movement...and I think there's a legit place for it from both an entertainment perspective and from a "go for the kill" mentality. However, I don't think it should be a replacement for rewarding dominant positions. 



I think copa podio's done a good job of rewarding position but also incentivizing action and going for subs. Not just the shorter matches but needing to win be a certain amount of pts. or a sub in order to advance.



 

Maybe I'm weird but I love watching a well-earned guard pass or a sweep. I see a lot of sub only matches turn into patty cake with one guy standing and one guy on his ass. Phone Post 3.0
I'm totally with you

Guard pass to dominant submission is the key to bjj Phone Post 3.0