In your experiences, have any of you noticed any specific subs that the vast majority of Judokas doing BJJ or Sub Grappling are susceptible to when just beginning the aforementioned arts?
If anyone has observed anything pertinent to the above, please share it.
leglocks, the maor the merrier.
they dont train leg attacks much, if at all. so fire away with them.
also, if u play a lot of half guard stuff, then a lot of pure judo guys wont know how to defend the half guard sweeps
True Judokas typically give their back a LOT. It's mostly because of the rules of Judo, but yeah, they give it up a lot, so generally I'd say that rear naked and other rear gi chokes...
I should have qualified my statement.
I meant submissions other than leglocks.
If they understand that you are doing bjj or submissonwrestling or just you two guys roll until someone taps then take their back and you'll get something in a minute or two or three.
HOWEVER if they are used to judo then if you manage to tap them from the back after 3 minutes of hard work that proves nothing to them. In that case armbars and triangles from the bottom (watch for being lifted and don't let it happen - they won't slam but in their book the judge will break it up once up from the ground) OR armbars and gichokes from the top (mount). OR if you can take the back and sink the choke in on a transfer then that is good too.
Not that I'm a good example, being 10 tonnes of suck, but I always get my head pulled down then guillotined(starting from knees then pulled into guard). Also, lots of my escapes tend to end up in a turtle.
It's not a fair assesment, since it's me and not Judo that is getting choked out on a regular basis, but it is what I have found.
triange from underneath happened to me a lot when i first came from judo to bjj.
I am going to assume you are talking about a judo player with some experience who is in shape and competitive.
"leglocks, the maor the merrier. they dont train leg attacks much, if at all. so fire away with them."
Agreed, also wrist locks, neck cranks, if you are good at some of the more exotic slower setups they will usually work because against judo guys because most don't have the time to do this in a tourney so a lot of people don't/won't train it.
"also, if u play a lot of half guard stuff, then a lot of pure judo guys wont know how to defend the half guard sweeps"
Gotta disagree with this. It is one of the most common ways to escape a pin and any decent judo player will know how to base and escape from this. It will have been drilled over and over. Not to say you won't catch guys, but as far as being overly susceptible to it, that just isn't the case.
i get lucky a lot with the triangle as uke tries to pass and get a pin...
john
chokes subs and sweeps from the turtle position would be a good thing to practice because you are likely to be given it a lot.
The Judo guys I have trained with have also tended to put a lot of forward pressure on when they are on top so can be suseptable elevator sweeps and followups.
(Competitive) Judo submission rules are a lot more limiting that BJJ, and that coupled with the high workrate caused by Judo's non-combativity type penalties means there's lots that a Judoka won't appreciate when making the transition to BJJ.
As a few of the guys mentioned, Wrist Locks aren't part of typical Judo instruction so often they come as a shock to Judoka. Also Triangles aren't as common because of the stand-up from newaza-related matte rules; so Judoka often rely upon the 'rules' as opposed to developing Triangle technical defenses.
Judoka will sometimes get caught by chokes (in BJJ) because, unlike Judo, a BJJer can apply pressure on the face to lift the chin... in Judo could get you disqualified. Therefore Judo-standard defenses don't account for such freedom of attack.
As for giving the back: agreed, many Judoka will do that, but are also skilled at defending/reversing from Turtle.
we actually got a black belt in judo from otsaka uni. he was part of the uni team and competed for them.
anyway, he tends to give his back up a lot and is very suscetiple to the gi chokes from the back, also, he tends to go for a lot of lifting attacks when u turtle up, trying to get his hooks in
Triangles and they give up their backs a lot.
"Triangles and they give up their backs a lot. "
Yeah, when I am not putting myself in a bad position intentionally the sub I am most often caught with is triangle. Even if I can defend out of it, I am often caught in the position that they can make a good attempt.
A lot of guys give up their back on purpose because they have to be good at defending it and attacking from it.
everybody is susceptible to something. personally, i get caught with wrist locks 10x more than anything else --especially when i roll with a purple belt or higher. they just happen so fast that i dont recognize the set-up. im really not great at defending the triangle either, but i will hold off and die before i give into it.
the bottom line really comes down to communicating with people and being respectful of what is and isnt learned in each. i dont think a decent BB in judo should be smashing people around when training with bjj guys either. what does it prove when you beat on people who are not educated enough to stop/resist you??? simply that you are a jackass.
things done in judo:
straight armlocks of all kinds.
ude garami (kimura and americana and omoplata)
chokes that do not invade the face or use the belt/lower lapel.
sweeps from guard and half guard and as people pass the guard (very few sweeps vs. a standing opponent)
things not legal in judo:
wrist locks
neck cranks
spine locks
knee bars
ankle locks
chokes that invade the face or use the belt/lower lapel
shoulder locks
calf crusher
heel hooks
toe holds
hip compressions
things legal in judo, but never really used:
bicep slicers
things legal in judo, but often not tournament successful:
any choke or armlock from the guard.