From: muchrespect Which takedowns do you think suit people with a lanky frame the best? I seem to have trouble getting my hips really low in a stance while maintaining good base (based on only 3 days of trying, lol), but I have long legs and arms and can move pretty quickly (at least when threatened). From: Ryan Thatcher I'm 6'3" and have problems getting a good level change and penetration step on double/single-legs. Any suggestions for improvement or alternative takedowns would be greatly appreciated. From: HEMAN duck under.From: Marco MAnkle picks
As a guy that is generally shorter and stockier than many of my opponents (5'7, 175/180 lbs.), I can give advice on what works against me from taller guys... Generally, taller guys seem to have a problem going for "mid-level" attacks on me (standard singles and doubles, for example) because as they lower their level, I can usually lower mine even further to make their penetration difficult. (*Not that I'm saying it's impossible for them, just a little more difficult than if they were the same height/build as me.) In general, taller guys have more success against me by attacking either high or very low. By attacking "high" I mean snap downs, front headlocks, etc. Attacking low means things like low singles or "swing" singles, where they essentially take a wide penetration step out to the side, then taking a head inside single (taking advantage of good reach to snatch the inside of my knee, then coming up to the head inside single). As Marco stated above, an ankle pick is also great for longer guys, and is sort of a high/low hybrid attack. My arms are too damn short to hit that unless the guy has a horrible stance or I set him up flawlessly, but let's face it - how often does anything go flawlessly for you in a match? (That's why it's a tough sport!) Heman, no offense buddy, but I disagree that a duck under is a good takedown for lanky guys. I usually find that pretty easy to hit on taller guys, not the other way around.
From: muchrespect Thanks for the feedback! Chip or Marco, can you recommend a good article or other instructional on the the ankle pick? Besides the basics of executing it properly, I'm wondering how to maintain control of your opponent after executing it, and specifically for submission grappling purposes (I know it's not your primary area of interest) how to move to side control and avoid the opponent's guard. Thanks!
I couldn't find any articles specifically on an ankle pick (I confess I didn't look very hard, though), so I'll do my best to describe a basic ankle pick (although there are quite a few variations to it)... Let's assume that you have an underhook with your left arm (under his right arm). Having that underhook tight is very important here! If you're using the underhook as a set up to a double or something, you don't need it quite as tight. But if you're going for an ankle pick, it HAS to be locked in there like your upper arms are glued together and your hand is heavy on top of his shoulder. You're going to pick the ankle on the opposite side of the underhook. Circle into the underhook side to get his other leg to step toward you. As you are circling, you should already be lowering your level very deep - almost like you are getting down into a sprinter's stance before a race. *In full motion, this will look like a very sudden stop and change of direction for you. You circle toward your left, lowering your body, stop, and fire off straight ahead.* In this case, your right foot is forward, left leg back, like in a deep sugarfoot stance. You are facing across the front of his body. Since your underhook is very tight, you are pulling his shoulder/head down with you. As his leg is coming around toward you, fire off through him toward that ankle (this gets his weight moving over top of that far side foot, planting it in the mat, making it difficult for him to sprawl that foot back). Remember: your underhook is still tight, so at this point, he should be very bent over. Take the ankle with your right hand, and simply continue to drive. Since his left foot is planted, he should essentially "tip over" on to the side of his hip. I've never done any submission grappling (planning to, though!) but I would suggest keeping hold of that underhook and ankle to control it. I would step over that ankle while holding on to it to try to avoid the gaurd and go for a side mount. You could also try the opposite and hold the ankle up to move around the leg to go for a side mount. (*Take that with a grain of salt, because of the aforementioned lack of submission experience. Can anyone else post some advice on avoiding the gaurd here?) FYI - In looking around for ankle picks, I did find two good "tall guy" techniques on the Les Gutches site. Go to the site, click on "Techniques" at the top left and look at "Swing Single Variation" (he does it a little differently than I described in my post above) and also look at "Knee pick," which is a close cousin of the ankle pick. Les Gutches
From: Marco M Ankle picks might be a good way to set up a leg lock. Just a thought, as you get him down with an ankle pick, those few seconds where he is not jumping to guard or defending, keep that ankle, fall back and look for a straight ankle or heel hook. Also, with long legs and arms, you can "shoot" ankle picks without tying up. B/c your arms are so long you can just shoot one arm towards the head and the other at the ankle. Kind of like an ankle pick right off the whistle in the beginning of a wrestling match. From: muchrespect Thank you both so much for the feedback. Great descriptions and suggestions for submissions (I'd thought of that heel hook, Marco!). I really think this kind of response has quickly made the Wrestling Q&A the best on this site.
From: noshame i didn't read through the whole thread, so i appologize if i repeat what others have said. i too, am (was) a tall, lanky guy. the shot my coach tailored for me- and i must say, it worked very well- was the sweeping single (or crosshand single, so many different names). it's basically shooting to the near leg and sweeping to the outside while he sprawls. there are also about a half dozen finishes should you happen to get stuck on bottom. no shame
From: Samooborona Ankle picks work well for the lanky.. the outside/sweep/pivot/etc. single works very well.. kneepicks, 2-on-1's, and various trips.. I've got an inside trip that worked VERY well for me for a few reasons.. a combination of being a lanky 130lber, a judo background, and having one knee with extreme range of motion made it VERY easy to catch. Front headlock +inside trip works well for the taller wrestler.. a tall wrestler with a good bodylock is also a real pain to deal with.
From: Umpa-D-Do Ankle picks have worked well for me in a tie-up. My frame makes it hard for to shoot for the legs from the outside though (6'4"180lbs). What should I be doing to improve this weakness? From: Chip Cochran Umpa, I'm not sure I understand the question. What do you mean by "shoot for the legs from the outside?" Are you not setting him up and clearing his defenses? You shouldn't be shooting from too far away. Try to give a more detailed scenario, and I'll help if I can. From: Umpa-D-Do I mean shooting without any tie-up. Example would be two wrestlers posting on each other and hand fighting them one drop levels & attacks opponents legs. Neither wrestler was holding onto the other. No underhook, whizzer, collar, 2 on 1, ect... tie. From: Chip CochranUmpa, Whether you're tieing up or not, the key thing is to move the other guy. To be honest, it's probably not your frame - movement is important whether you're tall or built like a troll (like me). Make sure you beat the guy around a lot, snap his head, arm drags, push, pull, club his head with your forearm, etc. You cannot move him with just your arms, make sure you move him with your feet too (e.g. - if you want to move him to his left, you can't just push/pull with your arms. You push/pull with your arms while circling your feet.). Here are two decent "non-tie-up" setups that are also very basic and easy: 1. As he reaches for you, take his wrist with the opposite side arm (so if he reaches toward your right side, grab his wrist with your left hand) before he makes contact with your shoulder or head (or whatever). Placing your other hand on the tricep of his arm, pull his wrist (and hence, his whole arm) up and toward the opposite side that he's reaching for. This should pull him off balance and leave the same side leg open for attack. 2. A simple post: as he reaches for you, post behind his elbow on his tricep area and shoot under it to his leg(s). If you try to just post on his forearm, his arms will bend and you can't completely clear the arm - so it's important to get above the elbows. Also, make sure you do it before he gets his hand on you, because it will be much harder to post it up and get it out of the way. Let me know if those two need further explanation. Give them a try and let me know if they work.
A final thought, Jerry Springer style:
:-D If you're lanky, don't just train "tall guy" techniques. Or if you're short and stocky, don't just train "short guy" techniques. No matter how tall or short you are, you will inevitabley run into guys that are taller (or shorter, as the case may be). ...and suddenly, you are the short guy! It always felt weird for me to end up as the "lanky" guy in occasional matches. So it's important to learn a range of techniques. But in general, I don't think you should get tooo hung up on specific techniques for one body type or another. A good technique is a good technique, period. It should be effective on anyone regardless of their build in relation to your build. This concludes my pontification...