Why isn't the 10 point must system better utilized to actually indicate how much a fighter dominated in a given round? Seems like every round is always scored 10-9 regardless of how lopsided it was. Occasionally you'll see a 10-8 but not very often.
It just seems like the benefits of the scoring system aren't being used to effectively score fights. If somebody got their butt totally whipped short of being subbed or knocked out, wouldn't a 10-5 or less be warranted? We could just change it to a 2 point must system the way most fights are scored presently.
lol @ stacks.
I echo the 10-8 question. In fact there are a lot of good questions on here.
Is there ever any backlash from the commission when verdicts come in that are polar opposites?
When one judge has 30-27 one way, and another judge sees the other fighter as the winner, is this obvious problem addressed?
How abot the Bonnar-Rashad Griffin decision where a judge gave Bonner a 30-27 nod. That was blatantly disgusting.
Thanks for the questions guys. Here goes.
Shootfightermike:If I did Judge the Randleman/Rutten fight. I would stand by my decision.
152A: The Athletic Commissions select and assign the Judges. I concentrate on my own performance as a Judge and I am confident that the Commissions will continue to select people of talent, skill and knowledge
carsonsshow: The criteria arre very important as a framework, an architecture, a set of guidelines. But think about this: Give three different contractors the same set of blueprints: the structures they build will not be identical. If they are competent contractors, the structures will all serve the Architect's basic visions, i.e. if it's a house, the staircases will go up and down and not side to side, the roof will be above the floor, the plumbing will be behind the walls... But they will NOT be identical.... Due to....interpretation.
I have a question:
Do you not think it;s time that the UFC disqualifies a fighter who DELIBERATELY punches with a "loose fist" in hopes of his thumb getting into his opponents eye?
We have seen Chuck Liddell do this FOUR times now and to my knowledge, he has never had so much as a warning......
Squirrelenuts: Every fight is different. There is no one way of telling you THIS qualifies as a 10-8 round, for THIS reason. The possibilities are infinite.. An example of a round I would have scored 10-8 from the recent actual past would be the first round of Hughes-St. Pierre II.
cp31: The amount of money I'm paid is a mystery to me. I don't really know. I haven't handled my own finances for years: I was a dreadful failure at it and had no desire to improve, so someone else handles all of that. I have never written a check in my life; I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to pay a utility bill. I'd learn if I had to, but as long as I can get someone else to do it, I can concentrate on things that interest me.
MBoylePC: I addressed your question last week but here goes....Years ago when the UFC wanted to move into the mainstream and stage MMA events in states with Athletic Commissions, a need for Judges arose. My name was recommended by numerous people. I have been involved in the Martial Arts for 20+ years. I work in the Film business as a Stunt Coordinator and Fight Choreographer, and have done a great deal of research concerning personal combat. I have learned from many people; I have taught many as well. Sometimes the same person, at the same time. I do not own a school and I do not align myself philosophically with any particular style. I have never charged anyone money to share my knowledge and I have never paid anyone to share their knowledge with me. I learn what I want from who I want and teach what I want to who I want on my terms. I have no instructional DVD's, T-Shirts, or Supplements to sell. I wear no logoed merchandise and will not accept any from fighters, or websites, or MMA equipment companies. I am not being compensated for answering your questions in any way. I am doing it to support the sport and the fighters. I keep a low profile at the events and avoid glad-handing with the fighters and their attendant entourages. Many people who I know don't even know I judge the fights.
JatBro: Mr. Peoples is not on acid. I am, however. Maybe that's why my assistant who is typing this looks like a Ralph Steadman drawing. Just kidding. Not sure what prompted your question; not sure I know when you crazy kids are just having me on. I do recall a great line from a biographical passage in a book by the Director John Waters where he said his parents rescinded the whole "You can tell us anything, John, we're your parents" rule when he told them at the dinner table "I am tripping on acid RIGHT NOW".
ryduce: The premise of your question seems ( I am choosing my words carefully) to indicate your belief that all Judges are the same, and that all Judges need education. I disagree on both counts. Therefore, I cannot provide you with an answer to a question whose premises I reject. Get yourself a book titled "the Archaeology of Knowledge" by Michel Foucault. In fact, you should ALL read that book, and another one titled "7 Types of Ambiguity" by William Empson
MONSTA: A question.....What if one fighter jabbed for 3 rounds, landed every one, and his opponent threw huge knockout haymakers that all missed? Even though the Gentle Jabber made no attempt to finish the fight, and Ol' Haymaker Boy tried to finish it relentlessly, who should be Judged the winner? Do you see what I am getting at? I wish last week's thread was available, where I addressed similar "what if' types of questions by saying this, and I will restate it... Please reflect on my warning concerning the "Glorification of the Process". There is no hard and fast rule of law. There is no formula where Takedown Attempt A = a certain numerical value, Takedown Defense B = a certain numerical value. Not all techniques are the same, they have different effects, they need to be Judged individually. Consider seeing scoring more...Organically. Every fight is different. I see so many people comment here about this equals that, Superman can beat up Batman, etc. so much prejudice, so many preconceived fully formed notions that people have, and then they interpret the events they witness in a way that reinforces their pet theories. Jacques Valle' says often the easiest people to fool are the "Experts", because they are so invested in the theories that tend to justify their own ideas, and tend to see evidence of that even when it doesn't exist. That is why Judges are needed to interpret the criteria in the context of the fight. The context helps to determine the scoring more than something written on a piece of paper. The context takes precedence over the process. I said earlier that once something becomes a LAW, all too often that allows people (sadly often those entrusted to enforce it) to STOP THINKING ABOUT IT. I don't want to stop thinking about it. I don't want you to either. Hopefully you will think about my answer a bit. Sometimes it's a good thing to hear the view of someone else, then go and think about them for awhile. I do it all the time. It's something I recommend to all of you...
Slippy0101: The perfect scoring system is me Judging all the fights by myself. Simulcast to my specially-equipped golf cart at Augusta National, where I am playing in a foursome with Tiger Woods, Ken Green (PGA Tour Vet & my pal), and the Ghost of Ben Hogan. And Kenny and I are two up on Tiger and Ol' Ben's Ghost at the turn, and I watch the fights in between hitting bombs down the middle and rolling in long birdie putts. Once the fight is over I call in my decision on my cel phone, where it is piped into the entire arena's sound system so everyone can hear not only my decision but also my scathing criticism of the loser (who hopefully is conscious so my brilliant analysis is not wasted on his slumped, unconscious form), as well as praise for the winner, the way they used to have the President call the Astronauts on the moon. I am encountering some resistance from the Athletic Commissions concerning this; they seem a bit reluctant to make the change. But seriously is there a better system? One will exist; I'm not sure it exists yet.. Will one be implemented? Eventually, but it would require a system that is markedly better than the one in place that many, many people would have to agree on.
Hollywood Blonde: A score that "Most find bizarre"? The scorecards go from the Judges to the Scorekeeper, bypassing "Most". A scorecard is a legal document submitted to determine the outcome of a legitimate Athletic Contest, not a referendum of public opinion.
vengence: Please see my above response to MONSTA
Cr1chard: Your "question" consists of an obscenity-laced ad hominem attack on a fellow Judge. If you are a Judge in NH, would you feel comfortable forwarding a copy of your question to the Commissioner of your state? Would you be comfortable with him forwarding it to the Commissioner in another state like Nevada or NJ, were either of those Commissioners enquiring about you? Please don't respond to me with some similar obscene disrespectful lunacy. Ask the question of yourself. You owe yourself better than the way you made yourself appear. Your "question" says nothing about Mr. Shirley; but it says a lot about you. Please look inside yourself. Is there a better, more professional person in there than you made me think you were? I'll bet there is. Go find him. He's in there, waiting for you.
Willybone: Contact the Athletic Commissions in the states you are interested in working in and ask them for an application. Then complete it honestly. List your skills and experiences accurately.
RedDragonUK: Please see my above response to MONSTA
danblack: How DARE you say such a thing!! If you were here I would clout you with my long, white red-tipped cane and have my guide dog savage you.
wolfdeth: The fights are scored by the Judges, appointed by and overseen by the Athletic Commission. Dana White has NO influence on the scoring of the fights. I have never seen him act in anything but a completely professional manner. He does not interact with the Judges during events. My opinion of him is that he is a very talented and imaginative businessman. And I do NOT work for him; I work for the Athletic Commission.
K-Dub "T": All takedowns are not the same. They are not scored the same. Every technique is Judged in the context in which it is employed
capnsavem: In that event, the Judge is brought to a special room where that guy from "Apocalypto" cuts his heart out with a ceremonial obsidian knife. Then his head is chopped off and thrown down the stairs. Then we all clean ourselves up and head back to ringside for the next fight. Sometimes it's tough, but when you got a job to do......but seiously I cannot think of an instance when a Judge handed in a scorecard that was "Blatantly wrong". Also, I don't see the other Judge's scorecards. The chain of custody treats each Judge's scorecard as the property of the Commission; I have no access to anything but my own scorecards, and I hear the other Judge's scores the same way you do; when Bruce Buffer reads them out in the ring. But you should go see "Apocalypto" if you can: very good film.
DANUK: I guess the best way to determine how you are being Judged is if you get reassigned to fights. I've been Judging the fights longer than anyone else, was the first Judge licensed in NJ. Nev. and CT. So I guess I'm doing OK Different Commissions have different amounts of Judges. I don't know how many they have and it's not my business to ask. I do the best I can whenever I am assigned. We are paid by the Athletic Commission, not the Promoters. we also all get a big bouquet of roses like the figure skaters get at the Olympics. OK that part I made up. The rest is true. Feedback? I do. It's called my "Scorecard". The fight is what I am there to Judge.