don't like fighters tapping to strikes. Don't know why. Probably would tap myself if getting pounded like that still i don't do this for a job.
Yeah i reckon it counts as a submission not tko
no-gi_JAMES420 - By definition they are "submitting" to their opponent.
Yeah, but it is much more in the spirit of the sport not to dissect chokes and joint locks into chokes and joint locks but rather group them into "submission holds", aka subs.
Whenever you hear someone talking of a submission in an MMA fight, you're thinking submission holds. Not a "submission" per se.
Whereas strikes are strikes.
I'm much more in favor of tapping to strikes being ruled a technical knock out.
JamesPowell -boxy - Disagree.^
Tap out or verbal submission to strikes = submission
KO = removed from consciousness
TKO = senses rattled and not intelligently defending
There aren't any KOs in MMA, only TKOs. A KO is from boxing when you can't beat the 10 count.
The real question here is whether Royce submitting should be credited as a win for mullet Canadian karate or iron balls Jo Son Do. 
As long as it's qualified on the record then I don't have a problem with it being called a submission. But if it's just generically called "submission" with no distinction, then it should be called a TKO because I think that the technique that finishes an opponent is more relevant than the details of how the ref determines that it's over.
Royce Gracie Win 1–0 Art Jimmerson Submission (position) UFC 1 November 12, 1993
Royce Gracie Win 7–0 Patrick Smith Submission (punches) UFC 2 March 11, 1994
fishyfish - on UFC's website, both fights' results are listed as SUB.No, it looks like you chose the wrong outcome.
looks like I got screwed again.
also wondered when someone gets knocked down by headkick or knee then gets some gnp,ref stops it.record shows KO via headkick as oppose to the gnp strikes
Being KTFO is at it's core an act of submission – it's the brain yielding to excessive trauma. Thus the whole argument goes out the window unless a line is drawn somewhere to help define the nature of the fight and the nature of the fighter.
In other words, submissions should pertain to chokes and joint locks and KO's and TKO's should pertain to strikes
New question :
If you don't tap to a kimura/armbar/ and you get your limp snapped but the ref stops the fight - sub or tko?
Same question for a choke if you go out.
Definitely a submission.
MDF tm -Ahhh good call. Always wondered about that.no-gi_JAMES420 - New question :Technical submission I believe
If you don't tap to a kimura/armbar/ and you get your limp snapped but the ref stops the fight - sub or tko?
Same question for a choke if you go out.
I say submission, and tKO should be awarded to finishes like jones vs machida, when the opponent is choked unconscious. But that's IMO lol
Tad Ghostal -Did you really say there are no KO in mma?JamesPowell -boxy - Disagree.^
Tap out or verbal submission to strikes = submission
KO = removed from consciousness
TKO = senses rattled and not intelligently defending
There aren't any KOs in MMA, only TKOs. A KO is from boxing when you can't beat the 10 count.
Technically, he is correct.
As far as refereeing goes, it is the same as a lot of TKOs.
JamesPowell -Tad Ghostal -Did you really say there are no KO in mma?JamesPowell -boxy - Disagree.^
Tap out or verbal submission to strikes = submission
KO = removed from consciousness
TKO = senses rattled and not intelligently defending
There aren't any KOs in MMA, only TKOs. A KO is from boxing when you can't beat the 10 count.
Yes I did. The ref doesn't measure your consciousness, so if they step in it's a TKO (officially). On UFC.com they are all listed as TKO/KO. In boxing, if you are fully unconscious it's actually more likely to be a TKO as the ref won't bother counting to 10. Also, if a guy can't get up from a body shot, it's a KO, despite them being fully conscious.
I assume the confusion comes from the fact that Bruce Buffer like to say "KNOCK OUT".
Since the guy subbed, I think it should be a sub. Since they didn't get TKO'd, I don't think it should be called a TKO.
boxy - Disagree.
Tap out or verbal submission to strikes = submission
KO = removed from consciousness
TKO = senses rattled and not intelligently defending
This
Pura Vida - Since the guy subbed, I think it should be a sub. Since they didn't get TKO'd, I don't think it should be called a TKO.
Prop bets should then be formed and defaultly understood this way
Win by KO, TKO, or sub to strikes
Submission
Decision
Let's do a simple word substitution here to see if this makes any sense.
Submitting to strikes should = TKO, not sub
Nope - doesn't make any sense.