"I agree with Tucker and Green giving Tyson some trouble. But he never fought Ossio Ocassio!"
I meant Jose Ribalta.
Tyson was good no question about it. But he didnt really fight anybody great. Untill later in his career and then he got his ass handed to him (Lewis, Holyfield). The fact that Razor Ruddock could even hang with him shows you what level Tyson was at. Hell even Tommy Morrison beat Ruddock. Lewis destroyed Ruddock.
Tyson knocked Ribalta down three times, and he handed him his ass on a silver platter, Ribalta never had a chance.
Styles make fights, Lewis and Morrison have/had the style and SIZE to destroy Ruddock like that. Tyson was 5'10, 215 to Ruddock's 6'3, 230 frame. Hell Ruddock only won one round the first fight, and maybe three the other fight, he by no means "hung" with Tyson. And Tyson was already washed up.
It's funny how most observers overlook the fact that
in almost all of his fights Tyson was physically the
smaller guy.He was often up against guy's who could
outbox him as in Tucker,tubbs,Williams or even biggs.
He was often under powered against guys like
Ruddock,Smith,"bitch" Green and others.I don't think
he given enough credit for a small HW.
The one guy who i wanted to see Tyson fight at his
peak was witherspoon,i think that would have been an
interesting match up,because when he was
on,Witherspoon was toough.
I too would have loved to see a Witherspoon/Tyson fight, but, you know, James Smith had to go and KHTFO in that unification tourney.
The mid to late 80's had some good underrated fighters. A lot of people try to really debunk that class, yeah some guys were horrible but Tucker, Witherspoon, Pinklon Thomas(had a GREAT jab, too bad the drugs got to him), Tubbs(very underrated, Kirk Johnson(on a good night) reminds me of Tubbs), and I also feel guys like Tyrell Biggs, Carl Williams, and Jesse Ferguson could have been very good, but they were brought up way too quick. Sad story with that bunch, either they were brought up to quick, good hooked on drugs, got fat, etc.
"The fact that Razor Ruddock could even hang with him shows you what level Tyson was at. Hell even Tommy Morrison beat Ruddock. Lewis destroyed Ruddock."
Morrison-Ruddock occurred when Ruddock was very inactive and was going through legal troubles. A prime Ruddock would have destroyed Morrison....Hell, Ruddock at that stage in his career, if he was active, would have still beaten Morrison. Morrison's people set up that fight knowing what kind of shape Ruddock was in.
Tyson would have done no better than Frazier
against a young Foreman. I am not sure he could
have beaten Liston.
"Tyson knocked Ribalta down three times, and he handed him his ass on a silver platter, Ribalta never had a chance."
I dont dispute that Mike kicked his ass. But it was in the 10th round of a tough fight. Ribalta showed some tactics that could confuse Mike. Good jab, hold Mike when he gets inside and push him back out into long range.
I remember that tournament,and distinctly remeber
Whitherspoons mind not being in that fight against
"bonehugger".Something to do with his then manager
Carl king nad his promoter Don King conflict issues.
Witherspoon was very underrated and at his best very
dangerous.
I really liked Tyrell Biggs,his fight against david
Bey was memorable for the horrific gash biggs fought
through and stopped Bey.You are very correct in
saying that he was moved to fast.He had immense
talent,but with tough losses his confidence was shot.
Tubbs was one of the oddest fighters ever,he was
absolutely a blob,but his handspeed was uncanny.His
combos were sometimes a thing of beauty for a man of
his stature,he could outbox almost anyone if he was
right,but his lack of power couldn't get the respect
of Tyson.
Atlas is dead on about the "silent contract". As a kid, Tyson didn't have a champion's mentality (breaking down and crying before one of his amateur fights as well as coming close to quitting in several of them) and it never changed when he got older. The way people talk about Tyson, you'd think he was some kind of fierce, lion hearted warrior.
Actually he is more like a mentally unstable gang banging street punk who is full of hot shit when he has a loaded gun in his hand but take it away and he is nothing. Tyson had the weakest mind of any HW champion. The only reason we can even call him a champion today is because of his enormous talent. But against a guy like Ali, who was equally (or more) talented, he'd be fucking outclassed. People love to make a big deal about Douglas' defeat of Tyson, saying that "on that night, Douglas would have been a handful for anyone". What a load of crap. Douglas was a decent enough fighter who was able to whip himself into shape for one night and expose Tysons obvious weaknesses.
Tex Cobb would have exposed Tyson too, if he were able to get a piece of him in the late 80's as he wanted to. Great chin, very brave, better inside fighter than Tyson, he would have had a very good chance of beating Mike.
Also, Tyson at his prime weighed 210-215 lbs. None of this 225 lb bullshit; let's not inflate his physical size in the same manner that his fanatics love to do with his skills, punching power, and heart. Tyson was an ordinary guy with some issues and fast hands and good power in both hands. He developed a good defense under the careful tutelege of Cus D'Amato but it was not a perfect defense by any means. He reacted to punches like the average man might, with fear and anxiety of taking further punishment, not an animal like Marciano or Foreman who only got pissed off when they were dropped.
Who's the one who held a loaded gun to a 14 yr olds
head?hypocrit.
I think it's seems a trend for Tyson haters to forget
that he had to take the title from three guy's to gain
it at the age of 21.How light we seem make the title
out to be when it fits our beliefs.Try taking millions
of dollars away from a guy who knows it's his only way
out of a ghetto,doesn't sound so easy now does it.
Now i'll say it again,Tyson took some of teh most
horrendous beatings in the history of the game and
still finished on his feet,the very act that made jake
laMotta a legend.You of all people have no right to
question Tyson's heart.Life isn't so black and
white,the sooner you realise it the better.
Tex cobb giving Tyson problems......Oooh Boy!!!!!!
Give me a fucking break Nat, every HW champion took some beatings and were tested, and most of them held up a lot better than Tyson. Tyson finished on his feet, and that's great but the difference is, guys like Marciano and Louis and Dempsey came back from beatings to WIN. It takes a lot more guts to get your ass kicked and come back to win then it does to stand there and get increasingly worked over with each passing round.
Comparing Tyson to LaMotta in mental and physical toughness is absurd; something I've come to expect of you by now.
atlas also had a falling out with tyson. and from what i read cusdamato offered atlas 5% of tyson purse every purse. but that never came about
Stocky
Name the fighter and the beating he took that was
comparitive to the one Holyfield gave Tyson.He took a
beating from Douglas and put him on his ass late in
the fight,so to insinuate that Tyson just cowered away
when things weren't going his way is ridiculous.
Martinburke
Didn't Holyfield score a one punch k.o. of douglas?
so that must mean Holyfield is a bigger puncher than
Tyson? ....right?.Don't be a jackass,you know as well
as anyone styles make fights.Crackhead Bert Cooper
almost k.o.'d Holyfield ,does that diminsh Holyfield
as a fighter.
So how old was Tyson exactly?the point is Atlas needed
a gun to deal with Tyson at such a young age,and you
have the audacity to call him a punk,which i actually
believe he was.If someone molested or ATTEMPTED to
molest one of my children i wouldn't need a gun to
deal with him.Especially a young teen.
"Stocky Name the fighter and the beating he took that was comparitive to the one Holyfield gave Tyson"
Marciano was half blind when he took a several round thrashing from Walcott, who hit harder than Holyfield in my opinion and was a better boxer than Holyfield in just about anyone's opinion. Marciano came back to win that fight.
Joe Louis took a horrible shelling from Max Schmeling in their first fight. It is a testament to his will and heart that he was able to get up so many times and even hurt Schmeling a few times later in the fight. He didn't beat Schmeling but he won in the rematch, something Tyson was never able to do.
Dempsey took a few hard beatings early on in his career when he was underfed and overmatched. His beating by the hands of Tunney is not to be underestimated; one reason he retired was that he feared going blind from further punishment to his eye after the hard leather that Tunney had laid on him. Tunney wasn't a one punch KO artist but he was still a hard puncher.
Patterson took a lot of punishment from Ingo in their first fight, but kept coming back from more. He also took two quick but painful and humiliating KO defeats at the hands of Liston.
Carnera took a bigger asskicking than anyone, in my opinion, against Baer.
Ali took many beatings, which grew more severe the older he got. There is no need to go into detail here.
Honestly, I could do this with every single HW champion, but why waste my time?
The point is, every great fighter took their share of punishment. Tyson's embarassing defeats at the hands of Douglas (who he never even proved himself against in a rematch) and Holyfield (he had a rematch but punked out and bit Holy's ear) are not enough to make him stand out as a valiant warrior with Ali, Frazier, Marciano, Dempsey, or the rest of the greats.
LOL @ "The only things you need to deal with Tyson are kneepads and lip balm."
A strong gag reflex would be helpful too. :)
Up until the thorough thrashing he took at the hands of the "Pugilist Specialist," Tyson never took an ass beating like ones Frazier and Ali put on each other, Foreman and Lyle put on each other, Holmes and Norton put on each other, etc., etc.
Throw Quarry in there. Especially his fights against Frazier and Norton. Ouch!!!