The answer to everything...

...seems to be either surgery or drugs

http://health.msn.com/dietfitness/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100155293&GT1=9033

God forbid anyone actually make a diet/will power change

You left out quackery like 'detoxing' potions and crystals.

Debunkify that strawman!

Doug's answers make my head hurt.

He's uses 10 dollar words on a .50 cent redneck.

I was looking forward to a good Atecexa post...a little disappointed with this one.

I dunno, it's inanity is rather compact and efficient. I like his new style.

so let me get this straight. this guy went through ALL of this stuff to try and lose weight before finally 'giving up' and getting gastric bypass surgery. and in ALL of that time, no one told him to (1) chew food thoroughly and (2) control portion sizes?

I'm glad things worked out so well for him. The article was really interesting.

However, it seems that nothing is free. The bypass caused him to slash 180 lbs in in like a year. That's why he now has gross sagging skin. This might've been less of a problem had he lost the weight more slowly and naturally (i.e.; mild diet/exercise).

But I disagree with Atecexa's disapproval of it. I think when you find yourself unable to do something for yourself, paying someone else to do it for you is a reasonable course of action. Of course, I hope he had to pay out of pocket because if his insurance paid for it, that pisses me off because that's what makes buying insurance on the market so expensive for the rest of us.

Simple fact is that if gastric bypass worked then all his problem was, was overconsumption of calories and lack of usage of said calories. Very easily controllable with a little bit of effort. Problem is americans are such lazy someone else can do everything for me bastards noone (or very few) have the will power to actually set their mind to a real lifestyle change. especially with food

I hate to say it, but I agree with Atecexa.

why do people need surgery to do calorie restriction?

worst case, just use portable measuring cups and eat clean.

how hard is that?

For some people, very hard. Not impossible, but just maybe beyond the reach of their willpower. If it's to the point where your health is deteriorating fast, and you just can't overcome your unhealthy eating habits, your choices are to die soon, or get the bypass and die later on.

I'm not saying it's not a failure of the patient, but if surgery can prolong his life, then it's the right move.

If it's to the point where your health is deteriorating fast, and you just can't overcome your unhealthy eating habits, your choices are to die soon, or get the bypass and die later on.

any unheatlhy eating habit can be overcome, if i can do it anyone can do it. it all comes down to knowing there is an easy fix out there and people will gravitate to it. i mean hell all that guy would have to do is go get a juicer and do a good solid juice fasting program. you still get all the nutrition your body needs with relatively low calorie intake. but that would require some effort and maybe drinking some stuff that doesnt taste like chocolate chip cookies

-- any unheatlhy eating habit can be overcome, if i can do it anyone can do it. --

your second phrase does not follow logically from your first. in saying it, you're making an assumption that all obesity problems are strictly a result of lack of willpower. there is a very powerful reward system in place for eating particular types of food. it's possible that in some people that reward system is broken. in other cases you're dealing with people who aren't educated about nutrition, and for whatever reason (sometimes attributable to root stupidity) they never correct that educational deficit.

Jonwell's point is that after reaching a certain level of enormous, even if you do attempt to 'go on a diet' your body may run out of time before you recover sufficiently.

i don't think anyone here (it's a strength and conditioning forum after all) will argue that the problem isn't fundamentally a failing of the patient. but oversimplification of the problem isn't always a proper means to finding a solution.

"any unheatlhy eating habit can be overcome, if i can do it anyone can do it."

You'll understand if I reject your n=1 study.

I'm not going to say that everyone who gets the surgery really needs it, but certainly some people do need it and benefit from it.

it helps obese kids too

here are the results found in another study, although I can't find the abstract for that one, so you'll have to settle for wikipedia.

Wait.... so the point of this thread is just bitching that lots of people (y'know, "those others") don't have willpower?

I just want to be clear.

Doug Stanhope said something that kind of put fat people's lack of willpower into perspective for me once.

"Imagine if you were trying to quit smoking, but you still had to smoke three cigarettes a day to live."

I've had weight loss surgery. (a gastric band NOT a bypass).

So far it is helping - I'm deliberately going slowly to try to avoid the sagging skin issue.

For me it was the last step in 10 years of trying to control my eating. Despite training regularly, I had managed to eat my way up to 390lbs. For all that people will tell you it is a cop out, and not the right way to do it, there are some points I'd like to make.

One is that for the morbidly obese (and I think it is worth differentiating morbid obesity from simple overweight), it is the most successful approach to PERMANENT weight loss. Diet and exercise alone have a really poor success rate. Basic science would suggest that if something doesn't work - do something else.

Second is that it prevents me binging - the abrupt loss of self control that would see me stuff in thousands of calories. Maybe that isn't the same for everyone. Octopus fighter is right. Every other addiction programme has the cold turkey option - that isn't the case if you have a problem with food, and food is a critical part of most people daily lives.

Third is that it works best with diet and exercise - it is a tool that helps me avoid the hunger pangs, but it still works best when I train and eat 'clean'.

Fourth, and this is what decided me - It works. So it's not as big a test of my willpower as dieting? Who cares? It works. For 10 years I had fought my weight, and never managed to keep a chunk of weight off. I've had the op (and mine is fully reversible) and now I'm 50lbs lighter. Ultimately, if it isn't the right way for other people, then fine. Atecexa, if you ever find yourself carrying 150lbs of spare fat that's killing you, then please feel free to try 'just eating less'. Personally I applaud anyone who takes the risk of surgery and finally gets control of their weight.

I fully accept that it was my poor habits that got me into this mess, it was my responsibility to get deal with it. And I chose the best tools available to me to do it.

"Imagine if you were trying to quit smoking, but you still had to smoke three cigarettes a day to live."

Not even freaking close. Ingesting nutrition is a necessary function to live, smoking, drinking, drugs is/are not. Anything can become an addiction and become bad, even if it is something good and beneficial can become bad for you. You could be a pure vegan/frutarian but if you ate 10lbs of carrots a day I cant see how that would be good for you

The analogy was meant to show how difficult it is for some people. So how is not freaking close? Seems like the food addiction is more problematic since it's a "necessary function to live".

Anyway, I'm still confused about the point of the thread. Just to feel superior to "those people"?

nothing to do with superiority complexes as we all have some type of addicitions, some are visible some are not. i guess my purpose was just anger/frsutration over how we are such a society of quick fixes. i'll admit i have my food vices Monster energy drinks, the occasional bag of Dorito's candy here and there, by no means a Bragg diet. I also haven't gained a lb since High school at my current weight and certainly eat way more than the average for whole fruits and veg's and exercise a lot