The bottom line

Everyone is down on MFC/TKO but the bottom line is they will be able to get fighters. they will be able to build up their fighters.

Just for example take the UCC which is seen as the premier event in Canada. The majority of their 'poster boys' who have fought any type of quality(Tko does have studs like loiseau, doerkson, etc.) have lost(usually pretty bad). There could be other reasons then the fact that they are lower quality fighters but the fact is they were billed as world class and when the chance came to show it they were shown to be only national class. This is not an attack on any fighters merely the system that pervades the mma business.

So by taking scrubs and investing in them, protecting them, also by bringing in guys who are outside canadian mma they can still make a marketable promotion. Once they do this everyone who is angry with them now and threatening to boycott will cross the lines eventually. There might be rationalizations as to why they cross the "boycott" but it won't change the fact that people will do it. Money and fame are commodities in this business and everyone wants there share of the pie. And even though everyone is furious with them now, rage is probably the worst fuel for rationality.

The only people that will hold to this "boycott" will be the people who are immediately effected by it. but what will happen is this is going to be an isolated grudge which is not good for the sport. these guys need to have a sustained support.

I am not saying that I want people to 'get along' or work shit out. The opposite. I think Pavelich is a bitch. He thinks he knows what it takes to be a fighter but has not(nor would he) ever step in the ring(yet he tries to be a coach).I have heard horror stories about his coaching methods. He also doesn't respect what it takes to be a fighter. The constraints it puts on you life, the limited window of opportunity a fighter has, etc. He has always tried to by respect instead of earning it, Something that promoters like Lee Mein, Jason Darrah, Jason St. Louis, and yes, Mike Miles have all done. They are people who have earned the respect of fighters and fans. They didn't go from managing strippers to trying to be a fight promoter. And that is almost exactly how Pavelich treats his fighters, like he treats his strippers. Meat (case in point, the misinformation he feeds a lot of his fighters)I want people to stay angry at Pavelich. Keep him in the stripping(and whatever else he is into) business and out of the fight business.

An angry but intelligent post what.

"the bottom line is you all deserve each other, you can count all your lost copper together"

Dude that's just mean. Most of the fighters really don't have a clue as to how things are run in part because there's this stigma of talking about "business" (in other words not getting paid, or having contracts switched on you) in public so everything stays the same. Hopefully more fighters will choose who they fight for based on how they're treated - not the perceived name recognition of a regional show.

"business and to be successful at it you need to be ruthless"

There is a fine line between being Ruthless and being a liar and a dishonest businessman....people get the 2 confused alot. I am talking form experience, I am a businessman and there's an unwritten rule that states you treat people fair in business.....not everyone does this, it does however catch up to you if you stay within the same sorroundings. between businessmen we all need to earn a living and so do the people who work for fair make your money but let the other also earn his living respectfully.

My 2 Cents....


Jetster is correct.

"want to be world class? act it"

don't disagree but I think that needs to pointed at the promoters as opposed to the fighters. I say if a promoter dicks you around then advertise it. Let people know what's going on so people can make an informed decision on who they want to fight for.

"then run and hide when maturity kicks in"

Not sure what you mean unless it's directed at Steoh and Mark.

Most of the fighters have no pretense about being world class - they aren't in it for the money either - they just love to fight. It's seems its the money that gets in the way...


You've been around for a very, very long time and I believe this will be the very first time I have ever disagree with you...partially because I believe you are taking shots at me. I don't know why, but have a slight inclination as to the 'bottom line'.

The only way to be successful in business is to be ruthless??? I'll stick to being honest and making friends rather than being decietful and create enemies.

The UCC was never international...take a look at UCC 12...and a few before that. Forget the inner and outer debacles but take a look at the product itself. Other than Pride and UFC, name another MMA event that had the full package of production, post-prodcution, matchmaking and overall sellable item to the MMA fans. I challenge you to pop in the various MMA events you have on DVD/VHS to a newbie and tell me what they're top 3 will be. Now, when you add the image and the companies reputation, I hear what you are saying.

We 'all deserve each other'...c'mon man. Where are you going with that? Dozens of us got screwed. We got screwed finanically on one hand, but got screwed in other ways as well and thus had to finally step back and and move in another direction. To say we deserve each other isn't something I would have ever thought of
yet alone have the statement come from you. Obviously, things have changed with you in the past 3 years.

I have never, ever fucked anyone in this industry. I have tried to build my companies in this market the honouable way. I've been screwed by many, many people, all who I thought were 'friends' or associates, but I can't be bothered anymore. Some people are ruthless and shady by nature...whatever. They won't be getting any business or relations with me.

If I have misunderstood your post, then I apologize, but to group me and many others with the various parties who have been accused of shadiness is a slap in the face. I'm shocked that it is coming from you.


We DO know him...all too well infact. Everything that was posted is 100% on the money.

While you may not agree with what was said, we did what we felt we had to do in order to survive this issue. Telling out story was a must in the eye's of not only ourselves, but in the eye's of all the fans and various other people who were screwed ROYALLY by him and his shady business antics.

Hopefully by the telling of this story, it will save a few people of having to go through what we went through. It's not even about slinging anyone through the mud, but more of a cautionary tale of what NOT to do in the future.

Joe and I will, and have moved on from this, but that doesn't mean we will let it happen to others in the not-so-distant future. Like I said in another post, if we can save only ONE person from ever having to go through this again, then we've done our job.

Take care,



Gotta agree with you on this. I should also thank you guys for having the balls to stand up and do what's right. I should have done the same years ago but i shut up in hopes to get my money. This never panned out and I could have done more to help others avoid the same kind of situation. I made rookie business mistakes and got taken advantage of. I'm sure that you guys wish you'd covered your asses a little more too. Dont be fooled by other forum members comments, you dont have to feel like you've done anything wrong. Being honest should not be considered a bad trait and I pitty those who think otherwise.


Like yourself, I am not taking this personal but I just want to clarify something you suggested:

" you do not cary issues of conversations to other parties let alone on a public forum..."

Prior to this debacle occurring, I had sent numerous e-mails requesting it not be brought to the forum or to any other MMA newsites. Unfortuantely it was...a post was generated which exploded on this forum and the fans wanted to know what was I posted. I care about the fans and what them to know and understand a few things or at least set the record straight. After that, it escalated to even larger proportions of which I had to reply.

Believe me, I did everything possible (in the interest of fairness) to keep it off of the internet. It did not happen but it has changed a few things in the industry. If my loss can help the sport of MMA in Canada improve (for the fighters, managers, promoters, fans and media) then some good has come from it.

And for whatever its worth, your opinion has always mattered to me and still does. Please continue to visit us here more often...your take on various situations has always opened many eyes.

George has a good handle on the situation.

what: I generally agree with what you say (in my business it applies perfectly) but I think in this situation things are very different than what you're used to in general business practice. No need to expand - I don't think I could explain things without being able to talk directly to you. You're a smart guy but I don't think you have enough info in this case to draw judgement.

On a good note you're advice should be well heeded for those who desire future success in the mma industry.

I didnt say that your opinion doesnt count. I just dont agree with it. No big deal. For the record, i never commented on your contributions. They have no bearing on my opinion in this matter.

Take care,

-GEOMMA, what? my opinion doesnt count? you have no idea of my contributions.................. past or future

I have never had a business relationship with Pavelich. He has never owed me money. My relationship with him has been purely personal. I do not harbour a grudge against him. I find some of the shit he does pretty funny. IF you look at it like a movie he is the stereotypical bad guy.

nevermind. Just being wierd. blame it on head trauma,please.

Long question: what fighters, managers, trainers and associates honestly did not know the character of Patry or Pavelich at least a year ago - and what is the significance of this to the potential aim of having MMA accepted by those that will ultimately determine its growth?

"Pavelich was wearing eye liner . . . "

What? :)

Didn't feel good about these posts. too negative. sorry for the creepy grudge vibes everyone. Trying to be informative not an asshole. Didn't really pan out for me.

edited post quick recap. Valimaki, Biever and Fontaine are all killers.

That last part pretty much started from an internet post. Maybe I should edit all this shit out. Before Pavelich finds out where I live.....nahhhhh! I don't think so.

edited O.K. i caved. couldn't stand the negative whiny vibe those posts were putting out.

Eye liner? "Nothing wrong with that." :)