So what is the philosophy behind the crossfit pullup?
Compared with a strict pullup where you'd pause at the bottom of the movement, the CrossFit pullups seems to rely on momentum. Because of this, crossfiters have developed technique to take advantage of the "rocking" motion to increase reps. I'd assume this would take emphasis away from the target area when compared with performing lower reps using stricter form.
The "target area" is your metabolic conditioning, not your lats.
What I'd like to know is what benefit a momentum-based (swinging) pullup has over strict pullups.
BTW, I don't consider the momentum generated in crossfit pullups comparable to the explosive momentum generated in the olympic lifts.
Given the goals and methodology of crossfit, they consider kipping pull-ups better than the regular variety.
As i understand it, Your body has to work harder to move a given load faster (not to say your lats work harder; you whole body, particularly your heart and lungs, work harder). As toddseney said, the goal is conditioning, not big lats.
Also, kipping pullups allow you to involve more of the muscles in your body in the movement (which is considered more favorable, from their viewpoint). Thus, given their goals, the kipping pullup is a better choice than a strct pullup.
Their website has several in-depth explanations of how they define fitness and how they approach physical training, if you don't understand their approach and care to know more.
I also remember reading (I think it was on their forum, though I don't recall for sure) that someone had proven for themselves (on high school athletes that they coached) that an athlete who preformed only kipping pullups could usually do as many strict pullups as a similar athlete who only preformed strict pullups; conversely, the strict pullup athlete couldn't do as many kipping pullups as the student who only did kipping pullups.
It's anecdotal, but since it doesn't seem to me that they're really trying to convince anyone (other than the people who are already interested in using their methods), it's not really an issue.
Thanks for the info Seul.
I found the "CrossFit Foundations" doc you referred to.
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-download/Foundations.pdf
It's also worth mentioning that crossfit does not use the kipping pullup exclusively. In additional to individual athletes having the freedom to choose to do strict pullups, crossfit also uses the L-pullup and weighted pullups.
I have never been a fan of the CF style of pull-ups. There are better ways to do pull-ups if you want to get strong and there are better ways to do Met-Con work if you want to improve in that area. Just MHO.
TAKU
As is frequently the case, Taku has nailed the correct.
The only real world value of doing a pull up like that is if you were hanging off the edge of a cliff and need to explode up to save your life. All other explosive movements in the real world comes from your hips and requires that your legs push off the ground.
The way they do the pull up is all compensation. That way of doing pull ups increases muscle imbalance.
Swiss Ball pull-ups!
As was noted earlier - we do incorporate a variety of pullups in CrossFit - dead hang, weighted, L-pullups, and so on, in addition to kipping pullups. Similarly, we also train rope climbing in L-sit position, kipping or non-kipping, etc. Kipping pullups are one tool in a big tool box.
Kipping pullups have a different metabolic effect on the body than dead hang pullups, as well as developing coordination and flexibility. Are they THE best way to work met-con -- No, and I don't believe anyone has ever claimed that either. They are the best way to get the most amount of pullups done in the least amount of time.
Another way to think about dead hang vs. kipping pullups, is to think about the shoulder press vs. the push press. The shoulder press is a stricter, more isolated movement. The push press takes coordination and uses more of the body. You can get more work done in less time doing a push press. It doesn't make either movement wrong - just different, but with the same objective of getting the weight overhead.
Dead hang and kipping pullups have the same objective of getting the chin over the bar, but use the body differently to accomplish that goal.
In addition, it should be noted that one of the disciplines that CrossFit draws from is gymnastics -- among other things, gymnasts kip to get up on the bar. They kip and do what most people would call a "bar muscle-up."
Umm. A muscle-up gets you up so your hips are on the bar.
Getting your chin over the bar is like a muscle-up that didn't make it.
ed - Yes, obviously pullups and muscleups are different movements! The idea, though, is that kipping is a movement taken from a sport and you can find examples of it, among other things, when gymnasts begin their routines and mount the bar.
Seul -
I also remember reading (I think it was on their forum, though I don't recall for sure) that someone had proven for themselves (on high school athletes that they coached) that an athlete who preformed only kipping pullups could usually do as many strict pullups as a similar athlete who only preformed strict pullups; conversely, the strict pullup athlete couldn't do as many kipping pullups as the student who only did kipping pullups.
I don't think that would be true at all. I know a person who can barely do 3 pullups but is able to do 14 kipping pullups. In fact I have seen people on the crossfit site state similar pull up to kipping pullup ratios in the comment sections.
You're saying some guy who can only do 3 pull ups and doesn't know how to kip would be able to do 15+ kipping pullups?
Lat pull down machine trumps all!
"That way of doing pull ups increases muscle imbalance."
-How is that?
614 - You're saying some guy who can only do 3 pull ups and doesn't know how to kip would be able to do 15+ kipping pullups?
No a guy who knows how to kip. He has to kip all the time because he can't do very many regular pullups.
You've got two similar athletes. By definition, they're able to do similar numbers of regular pullups.
One practices kipping, the other doesn't. Clearly, the athlete who practices kipping can do more kipping pullups as the other guy, while they both do similar numbers of regular pullups.
The "study" is flawed, but your example doesn't disprove it.