the definitive gokudamus theory on .9 scandal

This is the most plausible theory I've seen yet. Phone Post 3.0

UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA -  So funny to see orcus fly in as the first response and put his ZUFFA shill perspective in and try and nit pick his way to total denial.

Totally normal procedures at that event. Nothing to see here. Mike Mersch didn't do anything shady. Didn't lie. Didn't try and cover up a conversation before he knew it was on video.

None of that happened. Totally normal. Nothing to see here...lol Phone Post

 

Hilarious. The texts were released Thursday. You have been crying about this Sunday. Every single thing you were crying about all week was proven false. You must have been overjoyed when these "shady" texts came out on Thursday, because then you could keep your faux outrage going and act like you weren't completely wrong.

 

Go cry to somebody else about his texts, I don't give two fucks what he texted to Diaz's lawyer. Mersch would have to be an idiot to volunteer any kind of information to a lawyer clearly trolling for some kind of "you fucked up and we're going to use it as bitching leverage" info.

 

"However, since the UFC shouldn't really have this type of influence, its not made public."

One of the funnier things about your moronic theory is that your idea of "not making something public" is having it be, you know, public. Having the weighin be an actual, full-on, PUBLIC event, with these nicely rounded weights being announced in front of an auditorium of fans, journalists, and the fighters themselves -- the guys standing on the scale, with the best view in the house, seeing a readout that says "170.4" and hearing the official then call out "170". Then archiving the whole thing in video form on the UFC website for posterity. Then the ACs that follow this practice confirming it directly when asked by ANYONE.

Yes, they are really being secretive.

"so you are saying applying an off the record rule inconsistently is a good thing? or you are just saying its not wrong? if the latter. explain why it is not wrong."

I'm saying exactly what I said -- consistency is desirable, inconsistency is not in and of itself "wrong". Why do I have to explain why it's wrong? If you're going to make a claim like that, you need to back it up. YOU tell ME why it's wrong.

"it doesn't negate the assertion that the rounding is driven by the ufc. it could very well be the case that the UFC determined they wanted more flexibility in the weighins and asked the AC to drop all decimals."

But then determined they wanted halves? And then determined again they wanted to go back to decimals? And then back again? Great theory man!

"or they could ask the AC to drop decimals only for certain events depending on the fighters, which would be even more wrong."

Sorry, wrong again. Two GSP events used halves, two used wholes. Both events that used decimals were headlined by GSP. Any more theories?

It's absolutely fantastic that you have such ironclad opinions about something that every post you write makes abundantly clear you know absolutely nothing about and can't be bothered to learn anything about.

"the question you need to ask yourself is this. why the inconsistency in the first place at all? if its not being driven by the promoters - who is driving the inconsistency? why would a single AC, governed by one statute apply a rule differently depending on the event? what is the rationale for that?"

Well, someone who looks for the simplest, most logical explanation would guess that maybe it depends on who is officiating that day and what their inclination is. Or maybe it depends on the type of scale used that day. Or, yes, maybe the promoter's preference is taken into consideration.

"The laws may allow elbows but they don't require them so its not the same as actually changing a distinct rule like weigh in limits differently"

Until you can find a "distinct rule" that says something about weighin tolerances/decimal places, perhaps you should stop lying about "changing a distinct rule". When you lie about that it makes it easy to discard everything you say -- not that your stupidity isn't doing a fine enough job of that already.

 

 

"whether or not they give a fuck about the rule doesnt really say anything about whether or not the reason why decimals are rounded down for ufc events is because of ufc influence"

You are correct, it doesn't. What it does say is that there is nothing wrong with a promoter's preference governing something that is not otherwise codified, regulated, or cared about by the AC. Just as regulations do not insist elbows are allowed, or insist elbows are illegal, and therefore the promoter's preference decides the issue. There is not anything remotely wrong, corrupt, shady, or suspicious about this.

"it sounds like you are implying that you do agree with me...that the genesis of the rounding down rule that the quebec AC uses is the UFC, not the AC, in which case, im not sure why you are arguing with me, because it seems we are in agreement..."

I don't know if the UFC's preference is the reason for the rounding or the varying degrees of rounding. I'm saying that 1)  you have not to the slightest extent established that the UFC's preference is what is deciding the issue, and 2) in any case it doesn't matter whose preference it is.

"also, its curious you say there is no rule...i thought this whole time rounding down the decimals was pursuant to some rule...but thanks for enlightening me...but just one question..if its not based on a rule...then what is the rounding based on? hmmmmm...."

I've said many times some things rounding can be based on. What you are quoting and responding to is a rebuttal of your absurd and flat-out false claim that it is wrong for the UFC to influence "how their rules are interpretated and/or implemented" -- unless you can show me the "rule" to which you are referring, you are lying again. This the second time you've tried to base your "definitive theory" on a premise that is not only wholly insubstantiated, but demonstrably false. 

"the UFC very clearly tries to deny any involvement in shaping or having any influence on AC policies and governance. i can probably pull dozens of quotes from dana talking about this...from the judges, the refs, to testing for PEDs...so for the UFC to actually cause some influence, it would go against their public statements as well as the statements of mersch and ratner specifically with respect to this matter..."

Does the AC have a policy on rounding? It appears they do not actually have a policy, as indicated by your repeated reference to their varying weighing methods at events from different promoters and in different sports; or, if they do have a policy, it might well be to "do it as the promoter prefers". In neither case has the UFC "shaped or influence a policy"; either there is no policy to shape, or the UFC follows exactly the policy of the AC to indicate their preference. Another false premise, you really suck at this. 

Further, if you hadn't failed miserably at trying to prove the UFC "influences/shapes policy", all you would have would be Dana not being literally correct about the UFC being unable to influence policies. Frankly I don't think anyone gives a fuck about that. We already know Dana is not truthful about many things when it suits him.

In conclusion, what a whopping failure of a "definitive theory". Did you say anything at all that was correct or supportable? All you do is throw out a bunch of shit and hope something, ANYTHING sticks. 

Ahhh. The argument spammer has finally shown his face again. Gotta spend some time with the fam but will be back to destroy your post again piece by piece. Phone Post 3.0

wow Goku is destroying Orcus .I can gaurentee at this point not one person is reading Orcus posts

Winston Wolf - wow Goku is destroying Orcus .I can gaurentee at this point not one person is reading Orcus posts

He's a troll. I'll never read anything he has to say or take him serious from here on out.

k..have a little breather, so lets continue the pummelling..

 

"One of the funnier things about your moronic theory is that your idea of "not making something public" is having it be, you know, public. Having the weighin be an actual, full-on, PUBLIC event, with these nicely rounded weights being announced in front of an auditorium of fans, journalists, and the fighters themselves -- the guys standing on the scale, with the best view in the house, seeing a readout that says "170.4" and hearing the official then call out "170". Then archiving the whole thing in video form on the UFC website for posterity. Then the ACs that follow this practice confirming it directly when asked by ANYONE.

Yes, they are really being secretive."

 

 

i don't think i used the word "secretive", but to address your point, you need to understand that there is a difference between information that is publicly available and information that is publicly known...in fact, most information in this world is publicly available, but not publicly known...the commission's practice of rounding all decimals down to the nearest whole number is one such example...

how many people, prior to this incident, had knowledge of this VERY public information that the AC rounds everything down? fighters? media? fans? I haven't conducted a survey, but seems like the vast majority had no idea this was the practice until they went back and looked it up...

you see, even if a piece of information is publicly available, you can still take actions or you can omit to take actions in an effort to avoid raising attention on that piece of information...

for example, you can choose not to disclose the information to people who would find that information very useful, (e.g. all the fighters) which is what the ufc apparently did until this diaz situation

also, when disclosure is necessary, you can choose to disclose  it in a covert, "off-the-record" meeting...(btw, you should look up the meaning of the phrase "off-the-record" if you think they ufc had no problem with the info being public)

and if that "off-the-record" meeting was, unbeknownst to you, recorded and posted online, you can manipulate IP protection rules and take the video down on a totally bullshit copyright claim...

and when someone asks you "on-the-record" about that "off-the-record" meeting  (e.g. in a text chat) you can be totally evasive and act like you don't know what is going on...

and when reached for public staement by the media, you can deflect all questions to someone else (ie. the AC), even though, very clearly, you WERE involved in communicating the rule

now, does that help educate you on how you can try to keep something under wraps, and not raise attention, even if the information is publicly available?

also, as a side note,  im not so sure ALL the info re: the weighins is public...do you have a screenshot of GSP's exact weight on the scale or just what was called out?

"how many people, prior to this incident, had knowledge of this VERY public information that the AC rounds everything down? fighters? media? fans? I haven't conducted a survey, but seems like the vast majority had no idea this was the practice until they went back and looked it up..."

Obviously none of them cared. Again, if weights are important to someone, then it should have been incredibly obvious that they were being rounded down all over the place. 

This is exactly why your complaint of inconsistency -- which is in fact the first statement in your dumbass "definitive theory and what you base everything else on" -- is wholly irrelevant. The NSAC has been entirely consistent with their rounding for years -- for longer than Quebec has been putting on UFC shows at all, in fact -- but, as you said, no one seems aware they were doing it. So what possible effect would the Quebec AC being consistent with their rounding have had? It's just something for you to whine about.

".(btw, you should look up the meaning of the phrase "off-the-record" if you think they ufc had no problem with the info being public)"

It means literally off the record -- as in, it is not something in the recorded rules. We've been over this about 50,000 times now. You're probably confused because somehow you still think a rule was being broken or changed. There was no rule therefore the action is literally "off the record".

" if you think they ufc had no problem with the info being public"

Again, the reason I think the they have no problem with the info being public is because the info IS public. 

"and when reached for public staement by the media, you can deflect all questions to someone else (ie. the AC), even though, very clearly, you WERE involved in communicating the rule"

When the AC were the ones collecting the official weights, and were as far as we know the ones making the decision to round them, can you explain how it's inappropriate to refer all queries about this procedure to said AC?

Kizer at the NSAC has publicly stated his policy of rounding down to the nearest half pound; he has given absolutely no indication this policy has anything to do with the UFC's preference or "influence"; he has been entirely consistent with this policy; yet, again, everyone claims to have been unaware of it. So, again, in what way would the Quebec AC being more consistent have helped anyone or changed absolutely anything about the situation? Like I said, consistency is desirable; like I said, inconsistency is not necessarily "wrong" if it makes absolutely no difference.

"also, as a side note,  im not so sure ALL the info re: the weighins is public...do you have a screenshot of GSP's exact weight on the scale or just what was called out?"

No, is someone supposed to care about the exact weight on the scale? Or just the official weight? Point me to a source for the former if that's what you're claiming. 

Do they blindfold the fighters on the scale so they can't see their own weight, so they don't realize it's being rounded down? Just curious. That's the only possible explanation for how these fighters can claim they're unaware weights are rounded. When a guy misses weight by exactly one pound, and then strips off his shorts and now magically has lost exactly one pound, how in the fuck can anyone who claims to care about the issue not be aware that his weight is being rounded? When a fighter stands on a scale that reads 170.4 and the official calls out 170, how can he not be aware that his weight is being rounded?

What possible reason could there be for the UFC "not wanting" it to be known? The only ones who should give half a fuck about weights being rounded are the fighters themselves, who, more than anyone, have the info right in front of them on the scale at each of their dozens of fights. 

"Obviously none of them cared. Again, if weights are important to someone, then it should have been incredibly obvious that they were being rounded down all over the place. 

This is exactly why your complaint of inconsistency -- which is in fact the first statement in your dumbass "definitive theory and what you base everything else on" -- is wholly irrelevant. The NSAC has been entirely consistent with their rounding for years -- for longer than Quebec has been putting on UFC shows at all, in fact -- but, as you said, no one seems aware they were doing it. So what possible effect would the Quebec AC being consistent with their rounding have had? It's just something for you to whine about"

 

are you really trying to claim that noone cares about how the AC treats decimals for purposes of weighins? obviously many people care. the fans care, media cares and of course,the fighters care.

"are you really trying to claim that noone cares about how the AC treats decimals for purposes of weighins? obviously many people care. the fans care, media cares and of course,the fighters care."

People care about this instance because Diaz and his camp posted a video, it was taken down, they claimed GSP was overweight, their lawyer claimed it was illegal, blah fucking blah. It's something exciting to get worked up about. And people were convinced something unheard of and illegal had occurred. Once it was proven that many if not most ACs round down even in title fights, that no rules were broken at UFC 158, how many calmed down and retracted their outrage? About zero. They simply switched their arguments to stonewalling texts, even though they cannot point to a single thing regarding the fight that was done illegally or to help one fighter, being absolutely unwilling to let go when the ENTIRE basis for their outrage was taken away.

Where is the outrage for the NSAC and for all of the past several years' worth of title fights there? No one was informed about the rounding there, it's not in any printed rules or regulations, and everyone claims to be ignorant it ever took place, even those who've fought there a dozen times or managed guys fighting there a dozen times. Where's the outrage? Where's the blowup? As far as I can tell no one gives the slightest fuck that weights were rounded down in title fights in Las Vegas.

So you tell me -- why is this instance different? Because theoretically they would have rounded down a few more ounces than Kizer chooses to? But all -- ALL -- of the outrage was over the simple principle of someone qualifying for a title fight when the scale said he was at all over the limit. "You have to be exactly on or under the weight limit for the division!!!"

People care about this instance because Diaz and his camp posted a video, it was taken down, they claimed GSP was overweight, their lawyer claimed it was illegal, blah fucking blah. It's something exciting to get worked up about.

Where is the outrage for the NSAC and for all of the past several years' worth of title fights there? No one was informed about the rounding there, it's not in any printed rules or regulations, and everyone claims to be ignorant it ever took place, even those who've fought there a dozen times or managed guys fighting there a dozen times. Where's the outrage? Where's the blowup? As far as I can tell no one gives the slightest fuck that weights were rounded down in title fights in Las Vegas.

So you tell me -- why is this instance different? Because theoretically they would have rounded down a few more ounces than Kizer chooses to? But all -- ALL -- of the outrage was over the simple principle of someone qualifying for a title fight when the scale said he was at all over the limit. "You have to be exactly on or under the weight limit for the division

No, see thats where you are wrong my child. making weight is extremely important to a figher. if you dont make weight, a significant portion of your purse is forfeited and there is a possibility the fight can be ccancelled and/or you can be cut. and, as we all know, making weight is a very difficult process. fighters go through a grueling ritual to make weight. you can be sure, with 100% certainty, that if a fighter has an extra pound (or .9999999999999~), that information would be extremely valuable to any fighter. for you to attempt to argue otherwise is absolutely ludicrous. now, just because its important doesnt mean that all of the fighters and their camps do their due diligence and ask every commission what their practice is. i think most fighters simply assumed that they dont round down from .9, because that is an unusual practice.

 

and the problem you seem to be having is that you cant grasp that the outrage isnt over the fact that the commision rounds...thats irrelevant...the outrage is ovver how this was handled...from having an unusual rule that rounds down evverything, to not notifying the fighters in advance, to notifying nick after he cut eight, from taking down the vids,to not addressing the issue publicly etc. etc ...do you understand?

Bat21 - 




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Death Beast - Awesome read. I can't wait for your thread about Diaz' illegal late hits and how that should have been an automatic disqualification since you're Mr. By The Books and all. That should be posted soon right? Since you aren't doing this because you're butthurt over Diaz losing and your sole motivation is to see justice served....

 

That aint ever happening because it goes against his view that if GSP had been over 170.0 then he would have had to cut that weight and not been able to take GSP down. And GSP is a cheater and the antichrist.

 

"and the problem you seem to be having is that you cant grasp that the outrage isnt over the fact that the commision rounds...thats irrelevant.."

lol, you obviously are pretending you didn't read a single thread before that argument got destroyed and everyone could shift to "shady texts". Even now geniuses like Lazer and Winston are still pasting "170.9 > 170.0" in every thread.

The "outrage" is that everyone became entirely convinced that GSP was overweight and the commission was trying to protect him. This is because everyone was entirely convinced that allowing a fighter to qualify for a title fight when he was AT ALL over the division limit was absolutely ridiculous, illegal, unheard of, etc.

Even Tweedale's texts he's sending to everyone who will read them  -- the text everyone is clinging to as a life preserver -- are SOLELY about this issue.

"from having an unusual rule that rounds down evverything"

Please substantiate the claim that the problem is the specific degree of rounding and not the mistaken notion that you can't be over weight whatsoever in a title fight.

" to not notifying the fighters in advance"

It would be great to notify the fighters in advance so they could conceivably cut less weight; however, a fighter ignorant of the degree of rounding would certainly not have anything at all to worry about. I suspect the common practice of rounding has deluded people into thinking these weight cuts are more precise than they are. If Nick has his cut so perfect that being informed they round 8oz more than other ACs would allow him to cut 8oz less weight, then one would have thought he would have come in at 170 (rounded) and not 169 (rounded) in the first place.

In any case this practice (not notifying fighters in advance) is no different than at any other event in any other AC.

"to notifying nick after he cut weight"

This is certainly superior to not informing them at all, as in every other event in every other AC, right?

"from taking down the vids"

Fun for conspiracy theorists, but again, irrelevant to any real question of illegality or unfairness.

"to not addressing the issue publicly etc"

Since it is, again, the ACs that are doing this, referring queries to the ACs seems entirely appropriate, wouldn't you agree?

Do you understand? I get this it's fun to speculate that there's some huge scandal here, do you get that nothing indicates one took place?

The entire argument is made very clear here:

Tweedale explained, "We appreciate that Mr. Mersch was in a difficult position, evidently having been instructed by the Quebec Commission to relay to Mr. Diaz some last-minute, unlawful 'rule changes' to give the hometown fighter a reprieve from his duty to make weight at 170 pounds. But the above transcript shows Mr. Mersch's views on the matter. If he and the UFC thought that this last-minute rule change was above-board, lawful, or defensible, Mersch presumably would have answered our legitimate questions about the 0.9 and ignoring the decimal in a forthright and straightforward manner."

 

We see that there was no "rule change", "last-minute" or otherwise.

Similarly, Tweedale's texts on multiple days to the RJAC were *also* focused entirely on the issue of rounding down the weight in a championship fight.

Tweedale's outrage is based on his own ignorance, and the journalists and fans ran with it without doing any research and without thinking. Now the fans, at least -- and most likely Tweedale too -- cannot let go of their conviction that GSP was being illegally protected even though the entire basis for their argument has gone up in smoke, so they pathetically cling to Mersch's stonewalling as proof of something.

Herring In A Fur Coat -


I have a reverse conspiracy theory for yall.



What if Zuffa brass, once they saw the ridiculous PPV numbers for GSP-Diaz, are intentionally making up a "controversy" out of nothing just to justify giving Diaz a rematch ???

All these other posts in this thread... TL;DR

I think it's more along these lines. Still think its fishy that they caught this conversation on video. It's almost like they knew the conversation was gonna happen. Why hasn't the UFC or Dana commented or the AC yet? It's all a fix, they are all behind this story. Justifies giving a guy a rematch when he lost 5 rounds easy. Add a story of controversy and him being wrong and boom, another 1 million buys. Phone Post 3.0

lol, you obviously are pretending you didn't read a single thread before that argument got destroyed and everyone could shift to "shady texts". Even now geniuses like Lazer and Winston are still pasting "170.9 > 170.0" in every thread.

The "outrage" is that everyone became entirely convinced that GSP was overweight and the commission was trying to protect him. This is because everyone was entirely convinced that allowing a fighter to qualify for a title fight when he was AT ALL over the division limit was absolutely ridiculous, illegal, unheard of, etc.

Even Tweedale's texts he's sending to everyone who will read them  -- the text everyone is clinging to as a life preserver -- are SOLELY about this issue.

 

 

 

 

 

that is not my  issue and im pretty sure it wasnt the issue of others as well.  you have to realize that even if people are aligned in the general sense that something shady was going on, it doesnt mean every one agrees what the exact issue is or asserts the same things.ive made that pretty clear from this post that i dont think they changed tne rule last second so stop with the red herrings. its ridiculous, u realize u cant beat my argument so now u are arguing against someone else assertions.  u came in my thread fool. if u want to argue with me, dont bring up assertions of other people. 

OP and orcus should get a damn room,

You two bicker more than me and my wife Phone Post

that is not my  issue and im pretty sure it wasnt the issue of others as well.  you have to realize that even if people are aligned in the general sense that something shady was going on, it doesnt mean every one agrees what the exact issue is or asserts the same things.ive made that pretty clear from this post that i dont think they changed tne rule last second so stop with the red herrings. its ridiculous, u realize u cant beat my argument so now u are arguing against someone else assertions.  u came in my thread fool. if u want to argue with me, dont bring up assertions of other people. 

I already ripped apart every line of your argument.

Tweedale and everyone else's issue was that they were convinced the rounding was an illegal effort to save an overweight GSP. 

You, on the other hand, appear to be (now) pretending that your issue is that you care extraordinarily much about the letter of the law being followed in all cases with no leniency ever given to anyone, and anything that is done has to not just not be against the rules, but has to be explicitly IN the rules.

It is highly believable that this truly is what you are up in arms about, as indicated by your arguing for days about the legality of rounding weights, your steadfast refusal to inform yourself as to any rules or policies of any ACs whatsoever, and your complete lack of concern about the huge number of other UFC -- and non-UFC -- events in which this was the case.