All this talk about pharmacokinetics, half-lives, are mostly irrelevant. One thing that everyone seems to be ignoring or forgetting is that he didn’t get tested positive for turbinabol, he tested positive for the LONG term metabolite. They have tests for short and medium term metabolites that he tested NEGATIVE for this whole time. Medium term metabolites according to studies cited by Novitsky last 22 days, which if he took enough of a dose for performance enhancement should have shown up.
What most people are saying about half-lives make sense if all they were testing for was the parent compound, which would be a huge red flag if he tested positive for that. But since turbinabol is only detectable for about a day after ingestion, they use more sensitive tests of short, mid, and long term metabolites. How do you explain the lack of short and mid term metabolites, and very low levels of long term metabolites? No one seems to have an answer, but the one Novitksy is citing makes the most sense, that this is some kind of tissue or protein sequestration and the metabolite is being released in an inconsistent way.
Either way, the lack of detection of the parent compound, along with the lack of short and mid-term metabolites, plus the ultra low levels of the longterm metabolite suggest that this was not an intentional ingestion aimed a performance enhancement. To suggest that he is somehow taking small pulsed doses to get these tests results, they’d have to be so small that it’d make no sense for anyone to take it in an attempt for performance enhancement.
Generally speaking as far as I know they interfere with the test to detect the compound. So then the argument is that he fucked up his masking agent for the long term metabolite but not the others? Seems like a stretch
You just made a great case about the testing not being very good. Same thing dumbass Novitzky did yesterday. All they’ve done is highlight the gaping holes in drug testing.
I mean, are you suggesting he never took turinabol and only ingested it’s long term metabolites? I mean, Jon Jones is clearly the most unlucky motherfucker that ever lived, and his brothers too. Lol get the fuck out of here.
You just made a great case about the testing not being very good. Same thing dumbass Novitzky did yesterday. All they’ve done is highlight the gaping holes in drug testing.
I mean, are you suggesting he never took turinabol and only ingested it’s long term metabolites? I mean, Jon Jones is clearly the most unlucky motherfucker that ever lived, and his brothers too. Lol get the fuck out of here.
It’s not that the testing isn’t good per se. It’s that they don’t seem to have a good grasp on how to interpret their own results. Medical tests aren’t black and white, yes/no tests. They need to be interpreted in the complete context of other tests, physiology, scientific plausibility, etc. And in that context, him cheating makes no sense.
Also I’m not saying he ingested long term metabolites, I’m saying that the detection of them doesn’t necessarily mean he took turbinabol intentionally, and almost certainly doesn’t mean he took any for performance enhancement.
cheneseman - All this talk about pharmacokinetics, half-lives, are mostly irrelevant. One thing that everyone seems to be ignoring or forgetting is that he didn't get tested positive for turbinabol, he tested positive for the LONG term metabolite. They have tests for short and medium term metabolites that he tested NEGATIVE for this whole time. Medium term metabolites according to studies cited by Novitsky last 22 days, which if he took enough of a dose for performance enhancement should have shown up.
What most people are saying about half-lives make sense if all they were testing for was the parent compound, which would be a huge red flag if he tested positive for that. But since turbinabol is only detectable for about a day after ingestion, they use more sensitive tests of short, mid, and long term metabolites. How do you explain the lack of short and mid term metabolites, and very low levels of long term metabolites? No one seems to have an answer, but the one Novitksy is citing makes the most sense, that this is some kind of tissue or protein sequestration and the metabolite is being released in an inconsistent way.
Either way, the lack of detection of the parent compound, along with the lack of short and mid-term metabolites, plus the ultra low levels of the longterm metabolite suggest that this was not an intentional ingestion aimed a performance enhancement. To suggest that he is somehow taking small pulsed doses to get these tests results, they’d have to be so small that it’d make no sense for anyone to take it in an attempt for performance enhancement.
so if I am right you are saying blah blah blah blah blah? Ok cool I’m with you. Didn’t Frank Mir also get done for long term metabolites though and he was banned?
cheneseman - All this talk about pharmacokinetics, half-lives, are mostly irrelevant. One thing that everyone seems to be ignoring or forgetting is that he didn't get tested positive for turbinabol, he tested positive for the LONG term metabolite. They have tests for short and medium term metabolites that he tested NEGATIVE for this whole time. Medium term metabolites according to studies cited by Novitsky last 22 days, which if he took enough of a dose for performance enhancement should have shown up.
What most people are saying about half-lives make sense if all they were testing for was the parent compound, which would be a huge red flag if he tested positive for that. But since turbinabol is only detectable for about a day after ingestion, they use more sensitive tests of short, mid, and long term metabolites. How do you explain the lack of short and mid term metabolites, and very low levels of long term metabolites? No one seems to have an answer, but the one Novitksy is citing makes the most sense, that this is some kind of tissue or protein sequestration and the metabolite is being released in an inconsistent way.
Either way, the lack of detection of the parent compound, along with the lack of short and mid-term metabolites, plus the ultra low levels of the longterm metabolite suggest that this was not an intentional ingestion aimed a performance enhancement. To suggest that he is somehow taking small pulsed doses to get these tests results, they’d have to be so small that it’d make no sense for anyone to take it in an attempt for performance enhancement.
You’re a fucking idiot.
1. You clearly don't understand the difference between the terms "short", "medium" and "long" term. You do understand that the term "long" means it will be the last part to clear the system?
2. There is this concept called "masking agents". What do they do? They hide markers used in detecting PED usage such as, surprise surprise, short and medium term metabolites. Just so happens whatever he's using isn't hiding the long term metabolites. Read the thread with the title "the Duchess" for one way. Then read up on what dopers use clomiphine for - and then look up what Jon's first PED violation detected.
3. Turinabol metabolite M3 has a detection window of 45-50 days. Jon first tested positive July 12, 2017 for it. Apparently he's also tested positive in Aug, Sept and Dec 6th 2018 multiple times. Its been over 500 days between the 1st and last positive tests.
4. You do realize that the amounts that Jones would initially dose on would be FAR GREATER than the amount he got caught for, right? You do realize that the most benefits they get from it are in training camp, not because the "picograms" in his system are going to give him some crazy superhuman performance at fight time, right?
5. And you didn't fall for the "pinch of salt" crock of shit they're feeding us? These idiots thought we would be so stupid (apparently only some of you are this stupid) that we wouldn't understand that these doses are measured in "picograms/ml" = "nanograms/dcl", and that a 60 pg/ml isn't a small concentration?
You're either a moron or UFC shill. Either way you should go back to your hole and stop making threads defending these clowns.
Thanks for clarifying the meaning of long and medium. I’m saying the time between his prior negative test and positive test was within the window to detect medium metabolites and they got nothing.
Your arguing he went through the trouble of masking short and medium metabolites but not the longterm one - the exact one he was busted for before. Not to say JJ isn’t a moron but I doubt he’s that big of a moron.
You gotta take the time between prior and first new positive test in the context of everything else. His most recent positive tests are super low, especially in the context of not having had short or midterm levels detected at all within a time window that should’ve picked up the medium term metabolites.
Sure, except if that he took FAR GREATER doses as you claim, some of that should’ve been picked up on the medium length metabolites since they were within a time window for detection. The levels that he tested positive for seesaw in a way that doesn’t make sense either.
Where are you getting that 60pcg/mL isn’t a small concentration? As in, where is the evidence that 60pcg/mL is physiologically a “significant” amount, when all the science being cited says it isn’t?
I wish I was being paid by the UFC to make these threads.
cheneseman - All this talk about pharmacokinetics, half-lives, are mostly irrelevant. One thing that everyone seems to be ignoring or forgetting is that he didn't get tested positive for turbinabol, he tested positive for the LONG term metabolite. They have tests for short and medium term metabolites that he tested NEGATIVE for this whole time. Medium term metabolites according to studies cited by Novitsky last 22 days, which if he took enough of a dose for performance enhancement should have shown up.
What most people are saying about half-lives make sense if all they were testing for was the parent compound, which would be a huge red flag if he tested positive for that. But since turbinabol is only detectable for about a day after ingestion, they use more sensitive tests of short, mid, and long term metabolites. How do you explain the lack of short and mid term metabolites, and very low levels of long term metabolites? No one seems to have an answer, but the one Novitksy is citing makes the most sense, that this is some kind of tissue or protein sequestration and the metabolite is being released in an inconsistent way.
Either way, the lack of detection of the parent compound, along with the lack of short and mid-term metabolites, plus the ultra low levels of the longterm metabolite suggest that this was not an intentional ingestion aimed a performance enhancement. To suggest that he is somehow taking small pulsed doses to get these tests results, they’d have to be so small that it’d make no sense for anyone to take it in an attempt for performance enhancement.
You’re a fucking idiot.
1. You clearly don't understand the difference between the terms "short", "medium" and "long" term. You do understand that the term "long" means it will be the last part to clear the system?
2. There is this concept called "masking agents". What do they do? They hide markers used in detecting PED usage such as, surprise surprise, short and medium term metabolites. Just so happens whatever he's using isn't hiding the long term metabolites. Read the thread with the title "the Duchess" for one way. Then read up on what dopers use clomiphine for - and then look up what Jon's first PED violation detected.
3. Turinabol metabolite M3 has a detection window of 45-50 days. Jon first tested positive July 12, 2017 for it. Apparently he's also tested positive in Aug, Sept and Dec 6th 2018 multiple times. Its been over 500 days between the 1st and last positive tests.
4. You do realize that the amounts that Jones would initially dose on would be FAR GREATER than the amount he got caught for, right? You do realize that the most benefits they get from it are in training camp, not because the "picograms" in his system are going to give him some crazy superhuman performance at fight time, right?
5. And you didn't fall for the "pinch of salt" crock of shit they're feeding us? These idiots thought we would be so stupid (apparently only some of you are this stupid) that we wouldn't understand that these doses are measured in "picograms/ml" = "nanograms/dcl", and that a 60 pg/ml isn't a small concentration?
You're either a moron or UFC shill. Either way you should go back to your hole and stop making threads defending these clowns.
Thanks for clarifying the meaning of long and medium. I’m saying the time between his prior negative test and positive test was within the window to detect medium metabolites and they got nothing.
Your arguing he went through the trouble of masking short and medium metabolites but not the longterm one - the exact one he was busted for before. Not to say JJ isn’t a moron but I doubt he’s that big of a moron.
You gotta take the time between prior and first new positive test in the context of everything else. His most recent positive tests are super low, especially in the context of not having had short or midterm levels detected at all within a time window that should’ve picked up the medium term metabolites.
Sure, except if that he took FAR GREATER doses as you claim, some of that should’ve been picked up on the medium length metabolites since they were within a time window for detection. The levels that he tested positive for seesaw in a way that doesn’t make sense either.
Where are you getting that 60pcg/mL isn’t a small concentration? As in, where is the evidence that 60pcg/mL is physiologically a "significant" amount, when all the science being cited says it isn’t?
I wish I was being paid by the UFC to make these threads.
you doubt the guy that busted a hit-and-run on a pregnant woman, went back to the scene of said crime to gather incriminating evidence, and left again is "that big of a moron"?
cheneseman - All this talk about pharmacokinetics, half-lives, are mostly irrelevant. One thing that everyone seems to be ignoring or forgetting is that he didn't get tested positive for turbinabol, he tested positive for the LONG term metabolite. They have tests for short and medium term metabolites that he tested NEGATIVE for this whole time. Medium term metabolites according to studies cited by Novitsky last 22 days, which if he took enough of a dose for performance enhancement should have shown up.
What most people are saying about half-lives make sense if all they were testing for was the parent compound, which would be a huge red flag if he tested positive for that. But since turbinabol is only detectable for about a day after ingestion, they use more sensitive tests of short, mid, and long term metabolites. How do you explain the lack of short and mid term metabolites, and very low levels of long term metabolites? No one seems to have an answer, but the one Novitksy is citing makes the most sense, that this is some kind of tissue or protein sequestration and the metabolite is being released in an inconsistent way.
Either way, the lack of detection of the parent compound, along with the lack of short and mid-term metabolites, plus the ultra low levels of the longterm metabolite suggest that this was not an intentional ingestion aimed a performance enhancement. To suggest that he is somehow taking small pulsed doses to get these tests results, they’d have to be so small that it’d make no sense for anyone to take it in an attempt for performance enhancement.
You’re a fucking idiot.
1. You clearly don't understand the difference between the terms "short", "medium" and "long" term. You do understand that the term "long" means it will be the last part to clear the system?
2. There is this concept called "masking agents". What do they do? They hide markers used in detecting PED usage such as, surprise surprise, short and medium term metabolites. Just so happens whatever he's using isn't hiding the long term metabolites. Read the thread with the title "the Duchess" for one way. Then read up on what dopers use clomiphine for - and then look up what Jon's first PED violation detected.
3. Turinabol metabolite M3 has a detection window of 45-50 days. Jon first tested positive July 12, 2017 for it. Apparently he's also tested positive in Aug, Sept and Dec 6th 2018 multiple times. Its been over 500 days between the 1st and last positive tests.
4. You do realize that the amounts that Jones would initially dose on would be FAR GREATER than the amount he got caught for, right? You do realize that the most benefits they get from it are in training camp, not because the "picograms" in his system are going to give him some crazy superhuman performance at fight time, right?
5. And you didn't fall for the "pinch of salt" crock of shit they're feeding us? These idiots thought we would be so stupid (apparently only some of you are this stupid) that we wouldn't understand that these doses are measured in "picograms/ml" = "nanograms/dcl", and that a 60 pg/ml isn't a small concentration?
You're either a moron or UFC shill. Either way you should go back to your hole and stop making threads defending these clowns.
Thanks for clarifying the meaning of long and medium. I’m saying the time between his prior negative test and positive test was within the window to detect medium metabolites and they got nothing.
Your arguing he went through the trouble of masking short and medium metabolites but not the longterm one - the exact one he was busted for before. Not to say JJ isn’t a moron but I doubt he’s that big of a moron.
You gotta take the time between prior and first new positive test in the context of everything else. His most recent positive tests are super low, especially in the context of not having had short or midterm levels detected at all within a time window that should’ve picked up the medium term metabolites.
Sure, except if that he took FAR GREATER doses as you claim, some of that should’ve been picked up on the medium length metabolites since they were within a time window for detection. The levels that he tested positive for seesaw in a way that doesn’t make sense either.
Where are you getting that 60pcg/mL isn’t a small concentration? As in, where is the evidence that 60pcg/mL is physiologically a “significant” amount, when all the science being cited says it isn’t?
I wish I was being paid by the UFC to make these threads.
You have no idea how any of this works, nor does anyone else in here, so you should shut the fuck up.
I want you to explain this to me like I’m 8. What long term metabolite is he testing positive for, do you know? If you do, explain to me how this “long term” metabolite is being detected 18 months after ingestion. Can you also link a peer reviewed case study that backs your claim that this specific metabolite is able to exist at those detectable levels for over a year. I’m only asking this because you claim science backs that he’s clean. Please show me these scientific studies that back this simple claim of yours. Thank you in advance.
cheneseman - All this talk about pharmacokinetics, half-lives, are mostly irrelevant. One thing that everyone seems to be ignoring or forgetting is that he didn't get tested positive for turbinabol, he tested positive for the LONG term metabolite. They have tests for short and medium term metabolites that he tested NEGATIVE for this whole time. Medium term metabolites according to studies cited by Novitsky last 22 days, which if he took enough of a dose for performance enhancement should have shown up.
What most people are saying about half-lives make sense if all they were testing for was the parent compound, which would be a huge red flag if he tested positive for that. But since turbinabol is only detectable for about a day after ingestion, they use more sensitive tests of short, mid, and long term metabolites. How do you explain the lack of short and mid term metabolites, and very low levels of long term metabolites? No one seems to have an answer, but the one Novitksy is citing makes the most sense, that this is some kind of tissue or protein sequestration and the metabolite is being released in an inconsistent way.
Either way, the lack of detection of the parent compound, along with the lack of short and mid-term metabolites, plus the ultra low levels of the longterm metabolite suggest that this was not an intentional ingestion aimed a performance enhancement. To suggest that he is somehow taking small pulsed doses to get these tests results, they’d have to be so small that it’d make no sense for anyone to take it in an attempt for performance enhancement.
You’re a fucking idiot.
1. You clearly don't understand the difference between the terms "short", "medium" and "long" term. You do understand that the term "long" means it will be the last part to clear the system?
2. There is this concept called "masking agents". What do they do? They hide markers used in detecting PED usage such as, surprise surprise, short and medium term metabolites. Just so happens whatever he's using isn't hiding the long term metabolites. Read the thread with the title "the Duchess" for one way. Then read up on what dopers use clomiphine for - and then look up what Jon's first PED violation detected.
3. Turinabol metabolite M3 has a detection window of 45-50 days. Jon first tested positive July 12, 2017 for it. Apparently he's also tested positive in Aug, Sept and Dec 6th 2018 multiple times. Its been over 500 days between the 1st and last positive tests.
4. You do realize that the amounts that Jones would initially dose on would be FAR GREATER than the amount he got caught for, right? You do realize that the most benefits they get from it are in training camp, not because the "picograms" in his system are going to give him some crazy superhuman performance at fight time, right?
5. And you didn't fall for the "pinch of salt" crock of shit they're feeding us? These idiots thought we would be so stupid (apparently only some of you are this stupid) that we wouldn't understand that these doses are measured in "picograms/ml" = "nanograms/dcl", and that a 60 pg/ml isn't a small concentration?
You're either a moron or UFC shill. Either way you should go back to your hole and stop making threads defending these clowns.
Thanks for clarifying the meaning of long and medium. I’m saying the time between his prior negative test and positive test was within the window to detect medium metabolites and they got nothing.
Your arguing he went through the trouble of masking short and medium metabolites but not the longterm one - the exact one he was busted for before. Not to say JJ isn’t a moron but I doubt he’s that big of a moron.
You gotta take the time between prior and first new positive test in the context of everything else. His most recent positive tests are super low, especially in the context of not having had short or midterm levels detected at all within a time window that should’ve picked up the medium term metabolites.
Sure, except if that he took FAR GREATER doses as you claim, some of that should’ve been picked up on the medium length metabolites since they were within a time window for detection. The levels that he tested positive for seesaw in a way that doesn’t make sense either.
Where are you getting that 60pcg/mL isn’t a small concentration? As in, where is the evidence that 60pcg/mL is physiologically a “significant” amount, when all the science being cited says it isn’t?
I wish I was being paid by the UFC to make these threads.
I think its worth noting that any super star athlete that is juicing would be employing an expert who will create undetetable PED hybrids - over time these become detectable and the team will work dilligently to modify and create new varieties that are one step ahead of the testing programs. Most of these "undetectable" concoctions are made up of various combinations of previous incarnations that have been modified ever so slightly and combined in some form or other (at least thats my layman understanding) - it therefore stands to reason that masking agents and undetectable strains will eventually be detectable (but not all of them - maybe various elements of them). I don’t buy JBJ’s sell - reason being we’ve seen it before with effectively sociaopathic narcisitic athletes at the top of the game - they will never tell the truth and will always look to be the best by whatever means necessary. We in MMA need to wake up to the fact that there are multiple BALCO style labs working with athletes - its too competative for there not to be. WADA etc are the best thing to happen to the sport and the biggest issue I have with the UFC is how they bent over for JBJ on more then one occasion (let alone Lesner etc) - we need juicing out the sport and that means even a long term metabolite needs a ban. The card is still dope without JBJ as the headline - there was no need to move the event and fuck everybody over - that move by the UFC is the same symptom of capatalism and sports that had the NFL and Baseball in all that trouble - turning a blind eye
cheneseman - All this talk about pharmacokinetics, half-lives, are mostly irrelevant. One thing that everyone seems to be ignoring or forgetting is that he didn't get tested positive for turbinabol, he tested positive for the LONG term metabolite. They have tests for short and medium term metabolites that he tested NEGATIVE for this whole time. Medium term metabolites according to studies cited by Novitsky last 22 days, which if he took enough of a dose for performance enhancement should have shown up.
What most people are saying about half-lives make sense if all they were testing for was the parent compound, which would be a huge red flag if he tested positive for that. But since turbinabol is only detectable for about a day after ingestion, they use more sensitive tests of short, mid, and long term metabolites. How do you explain the lack of short and mid term metabolites, and very low levels of long term metabolites? No one seems to have an answer, but the one Novitksy is citing makes the most sense, that this is some kind of tissue or protein sequestration and the metabolite is being released in an inconsistent way.
Either way, the lack of detection of the parent compound, along with the lack of short and mid-term metabolites, plus the ultra low levels of the longterm metabolite suggest that this was not an intentional ingestion aimed a performance enhancement. To suggest that he is somehow taking small pulsed doses to get these tests results, they’d have to be so small that it’d make no sense for anyone to take it in an attempt for performance enhancement.
The lack of detection of the parent drug is explained by its short half life. The continued detection of long term metabolites indicate continued use. Explaining those two is easy. As far as the “medium term” metabolites. What are they exactly? If we can get a list of all the metabolites they are testing for then we can simply go down the list and determine the range and time of detectability. I haven’t seen this list, but then again I haven’t been following every single story. So if it’s been released do you mind sharing that information here?
