Jermey Horn is good also.
Ultra, he coached him that's great that doesn't make him one of the greatest no gi instructors ever. Everyone is using Roger and Kyra as examples of his greta no gi teaching but the fact remains he had very little to do with their development compared to GB and Rogers father for Roger.
Xchoke,
You were at an awards dinner for Renzo correct, what the hell did you expect people to say he was an ahole and he sucked? You were in a room full of Renzo supporters. I like Renzo don't get me wrong probably the nicest Gracie you will ever meet, but the myth that follows these guys is just too funny. Carlos says he is one of the most important people in martial arts ever? That's a huge statements since martial arts has been around for 1,000's of years. Once again the Gracie hype machine in full throttle. I'm sure you believe Ricksons 400-0 record and that he is unbeatable and his aura is unstoppable etc.
I think a lot of you guys need to learn the difference between a coach and an instructor. Renzo coached Roger along the side lines at ADCC which is a hell of a long way from being his instructor. What was built way before Renzo helped him 7 weeks before ADCC and what he said on the side lines is what was the seed to Rogers winning the ADCC. The person who planted the seed and grew his BJJ is the one who gets the credit for Roger winning ADCC.
Which is why I dimiss using Roger and Kyra as examples of Renzos reason for being the best no gi instructor. He did not produce two adcc winners in this years adcc he coached them, a big difference.
Saying Jacare (Romero "Jacare" Cavalcanti) taught both Leo and Marcelo isn't accurate either. Fabio Gurgel, Jacare's #1 black belt taught Marcelo. In fact, Leo and Marcelo haven't competed against each other or even trained together. That would be fun to see. My vote for best inst. is still for Jacare - for really developing people's strengths.
"Xchoke,
You were at an awards dinner for Renzo correct, what the hell did you expect people to say he was an ahole and he sucked? You were in a room full of Renzo supporters. I like Renzo don't get me wrong probably the nicest Gracie you will ever meet, but the myth that follows these guys is just too funny. Carlos says he is one of the most important people in martial arts ever? That's a huge statements since martial arts has been around for 1,000's of years. Once again the Gracie hype machine in full throttle. I'm sure you believe Ricksons 400-0 record and that he is unbeatable and his aura is unstoppable etc. "
No it was not an award dinner for Renzo. He was not even in the same state. It was a Black Tie affair put on by a Martial Arts Magazine that was honoring masters of different backrounds. Proff Monsur (SP?) was being honored.
Stop hopping to assumptions dumb ass and just notice the mans accomplishments. He is one of the best teachers / coaches in grappling period.
Champ,
It all comes from Alliance one team and that was the point and Jacare trained Marcelo it wasn't all Fabio but he was the main instructor of Marcelo.
Renzo, Royler, Rickson
Xchoke,
He is one of the best teachers in grappling period? No argument there from me at all. The greatest no gi instructor of all time or one of the most important people in martial arts history is a whole different story.
Again I go back to the statements that were made to back up him being the best no gi instructor ever and Kyra and roger gracie were his two shining examples of two adcc wins. But they weren't his students, he coached them but they were students of others long before Renzo was coaching them.
People get very defensive when you say anything about the Gracies. Here is a news flash for you they are not the most popular family in Brasil, nor is BJJ as big as they claim. Speak to a lot of people from brasil and most have no idea who the Gracies are or what BJJ or GJJ is for that matter. The myth they have set around themselves has gotten out of hand. Helio inventing this and that when you look at Judo books from before Helio and there is the very same moves he supposedly created being done in Japan.
The myth of the gracies is just that a myth like the greek myths there is some facts there but a lot of tall tales as well. This I learned from someone from Brasil who does bjj, go figure.
Greatest at the mo:
Jacare's coach
Marcelinho's coach
Leozinho's coach
Roger's coach
just my 0.02
BJJ PRIMATE, I just happened to be lucky enuff to be at a table and listened to and joined a conversation that was about Renzo. Carlos Machado made that statement, not me I just repeated it as closely as I remember it being said.
Everyone is intitled to an opinion, I believe Renzo is a very special guy.
p.s. Why would these Champions flock to Renzo before such a big event if he was not respected as the best possible coach available to them ?
Carlinhos sends his guys to Renzo for Big fight/match prep WHY ???
Why did Rogers dad have him go to NYC ?? WHY ?? Why did Elvis? Cachoarino(SP?) and so many others before big matches from all of the Gracie tree come to Renzo's ?? Why does even Ceasars guys when fighting MMA have Renzo as Chief second ??
Maybe there is a reason ?? Its not that he taught all these people everything they know, he does make what they know better !!!!
Highlander
Wait a second I was the ONLY ONE who brought up Rodrigo so how could I be dismissing him if everyone else seems to have forgotten about him? As for his contribution to Roger and Kyra, I did not dismiss that either. I said there is a difference between a COACH and an instructor. Renzo coached them and that is very important, however there is a distinct difference between the title of instructor and coach. Rogers instructors were his father which for some reason seems to be lost on everyone here, his father who is a great instructor and bjj player in his own right seems to be largely over looked in the scheme of things in Rogers success as well as Carlinhos while Renzo seems to be recieving all the credit.
This hatorade comment is just plain stupid if you knew where I trained or who my friends are in relation to Renzo. I like Renzo a great deal but facts are facts, the two biggest contributors to Rogers success are being overlooked for 7 weeks of training at Renzos. Again, Roger was a Mundial Champ and had a great game before those 7 weeks and where did that come from? His INSTRUCTORS!
Xchoke,
Why did Feitosa not head over to Renzos, instead choosing to go to GB in brasil? Why was Jamal Patterson training other places other than Renzos? Why did Rogers dad have him go there? Simple, who the hell did he really have over seas as serious people to roll and train with to get ready? Again choke you need to learn the difference between a COACH and an instructor until you become educated on the distinction between the two this is a moot conversation. Renzo, is obviously a damn good coach that doesn't make him the greatest no gi instructor ever which is what this subject thread was about. Do you want to call him the greatest coach ever in the sport? That too is arguable with the likes of Militech and Carlson and Carlinhos etc. Look to the above post where I explain my point about where my thinking comes from. Great Coach does not equal best no gi instructor ever.
Best no gi instructor? = Dan Gable.
OK. You don't want to fully give Renzo props for some accomplishments. But even modifying or taking some of them away, who's listed credentials as a no-gi instructor, are even close?
RECAP:
Kyra and Roger Gracie were indeed known as top gi competitors while in Brazil, but they traveled all the way from Brazil in New York to be taught by Renzo for the biggest no-gi fights of their careers. They must have had a reason. They certain had the results- 2005 Abu Dhabi champions.
Rodrigo Gracie who was trained probably from birth by his father (another high ranking Gracie jiujitsu instructor) moved to NY in his early 20's to train largely no-gi under Renzo, and became an Abu Dhabi champion.
Ricardo Almeida, an established gi champion at various belt ranks in Brazil under the top guidance of the Barra Gracie team and Carlos Gracie moved to the NY area and trained no-gi under Renzo, gaining his black belt with him and becoming a standout Abu Dhabi competitor.
Matt Serra, second place (could easily have been first place) Abu Dhabi championships fighter.
Sean Alvarez, top level Abu Dhabi competitor in several Abu Dhabi competitions.
Renzo himself, has shown what he knows about no-gi submission grappling particularly in his younger years and is himself a former Abu Dhabi champion, and is probably the oldest competitor invited to Abu Dhabi and still able to compete among the elete at that level.
NAGA is certainly the most popular open no gi competition circuit year after year on the east coast and now spreading west with who knows how many tournaments on their circuit with thousands of competitors and dozzens and dozzens of temas participanting. Check the annual NAGA award, that is year after year, and see which team comes away with the trophy for most points in the adult no-gi division. The only team that has EVER won that award is TEAM RENZO.
As I said, there may be flaws, and nit-picking modifications to any statement, but before you try to knock down, give me a name and list as I have another no-gi instructor who you believe has a stronger resume. If you can't. The debates over. There may be other great ones, but the name at the top of the list has to be Renzo.
bjjprim8 is correct.
bjjprim8 is totally incorrect.
"It all comes from Alliance one team and that was the point and Jacare trained Marcelo it wasn't all Fabio but he was the main instructor of Marceloinstructor of Marcelo"
He thinks Jacare is the best, yet dismisses Renzo? Jacare has been in America since 1995. How can you possibly attribute both Leo and Marcelo Garcia's no gi success to him?
How many successful American no gi competitors has he produced in the decade he has been here?
I think everyone concluded that Renzo was the best.
Probably not.