The logical reason Liddell is #1

Underground
1

Throw out the Pride/DSE biases ... forget the A beats C, etc.. BS, look at it completely objectively and you will plainly see why Chuck should be, and is, #1.

The whole Rampage beat Liddell thing is complete BS, and is nothing more than an "excuse" by the DSE chinballers to not rank Chuck where he belongs (#1).

In fact, let's break this down ...

Yep, Rampage beat Chuck, but he also destroyed Arona, Randleman, and Vov ... However, he was destroyed by Shogun, and twice by Silva .. where does this leave him in the rankings? I can bet that if Arona had emerged as the winner against Shogun then all the DSE nutriders would have been screaming that Ricardo belonged at # 1, even though he lost to the same guy that Chuck did, Rampage.

Do you see my point?

There is a definate bias here, and it's pathetic that a lot of these idiots live here in the states, yet seem to hate the guys (ZUFFA/UFC) that are not only keeping MMA alive and well here, but are also continuing to give us FREE MMA on regular TV. WTF has DSE done for us? Seriously?

I like both Pride and The UFC, and the only time I ever chime in is when someone is posting some very obviously biased BS that needs addressing.

Believe me, I have my issues with both orgs, but for whatever reasons it seems to be the tre cool thing to dog ZUFFA, but be a DSE chinballer on the UG, at least all the Pride fanboys seem to think so anyway... It's just so ignorant that I truly wish these idiots had no access to MMA at all, Why? ...because they don't deserve shit!

2

"WTF has DSE done for us? Seriously? "

Fedor vs. crocop

3

read this for a logical rebuttal:

Ok let's start with the UFC and how some of its fighters obtain or retain rankings. What the UFC is doing is riding off one 5 year old lay and pray victory over Silva and an 8 year old fluke victory over Silva. They hold onto these forever like grandma keeps the wedding gown in the closet... and then they set up 4 fighters in a set of merry-go-round matches, and no matter what happens between these 4 fighters, they will always stay in the top 10.

Keep in mind that after a UFC event with these fighters, the rankings don't change much.. maybe an interchange of Randy and Charles depending on who beats who that night.

And all of a sudden a big Pride event happens, and the rankings are shaken up (which evidently shows the ranking clout that Pride posesses). Silva gets beaten via lay and pray by Arona.. and WA-LA.. Like one of David Copperfield's tricks, Sir Charles is #1 now.. without having to do anything. How can this be, you ask?

The logic? Well, Shogun won the tournament but wait, there is an achilles heel; he lost to Babalu before. Now all of a sudden this rarely spoken about win over Babalu is accentuated and triangle arguments are employed to give Chuck a #1 ranking.

But the problem here is this. Silva was undisputably the #1 ranked fighter before the GP finals. Nobody denies this. You cannot get a #1 ranking without doing jack shit. Arona beats Silva... only to get owned by Shogun. Now Shogun has steamrolled through the LHW top 5 by beating Arona, Nog and Rampage.

let's say you are not convinced and want to employ the triangle theory for both Shogun and Chuck. There are problems with this methodology and I am aware of it, but since this seems to be the main fallacious argument for Chuck as #1, I will do my best to break it down evenly.

Ok Chuck beat the man who beat Shogun (linear #1), Sobral. But Shogun beat the man who beat Chuck (nuthugger's #1), Rampage.

Ok, so Chuck beat sobral, who has been for the past couple of years a borderline top 10-15 fighter. Most people currently rank him at #9 or #10. To the best of my knowledge he has not been ranked in the top 5 within the past three years.

and Shogun beat Rampage, who has been for the past couple years at the #2 ranking and now at #5.

Now, keep in mind that Rampage has a recent win over Chuck (nuthugger #1) and a recent win over Arona, who just beat the former #1 ranked Silva.

On the other hand, Sobral has no recent victories over top 10 fighters.

Just by using first degree triangle logic alone, it is safe to say that Shogun still stands stronger than Chuck.

Using the brainless or "inferential" triangle logic employed by some UG proto-logicians, Rampage can be #1 for not doing shit because he beat the current so-called #1, Chuck. Then Shogun can claim #1 because he beat Rampage. Then babalu can claim #1 for beating Shogun. Then Chuck can claim #1 for beat Babalu. Then we return to the original loop, Rampage can come back to #1 for beating Chuck. Using this back in time, triangle theory ranking not only does not make sense, it is ludicrous as I have just shown.

This is the same rationale as to why a lot of people rank Chuck as #1. Shogun wins the GP. Chuck was formerly ranked #2 by nuthuggers, and Randy #3. There is no way that he can get to the #1 spot by beating Jeremy Horn or Randy Couture. The only reason that I can think of is Triangle logic. Shogun wins the GP.. let's make him #1 temporarily, but wait Chuck beat the man who beat Shogun, so this makes Chuck #1. This is called the "back in time" triangle rationalization.

Once again, the logic above makes no sense.

Ok, now we use direct linear rankings:

Since EVERYBODY had Silva ranked at #1 before the loss to Arona, Shogun's #1 ranking comes precisely from beating the MAN that beat the MAN, Arona.

This event has no bearing on Babalu, because he has not done shit since his win against Shogun. Only Babalu's legacy ranking goes up only because Shogun turned out to be the GP Champion.

Therefore Shogun's ranking is solely based on him beating 3 top 5 fighters this year, including Arona who beat the former #1 Silva. Compare to Chuck who has beaten 2 current top 10's (randy and Babalu)

So in a nutshell: Silva was #1 before GP Finals, gets beaten by arona, now arona is #1, but right after shogun beats him, now he is #1. This is what is called a direct linear ranking.

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"No where in your post did you explain why Chuck should be #1. You just brought some arguments why Rampage and Arona should not be. "

LOL @ the "logical reason" thread title.

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This thread is in response to all the DSE fanboys saying why Chuck shouldn't be #1, but I'll explain why he is #1 now ...

First of all, he has handed Babalu, a still dangerous/formidable KR, Tito, Randy,Overeem, Belfort, White, and Horn all very devastating TKO/KO losses ...

Randy was # 1 at the time

Tito was # 2 or 3 at the time

Overeem was ranked

Belfort was ranked

KR was ranked at the time

IMO Shogun will eventually be # 1 (if he stays at 205 .. I hear he is moving up to heavyweight very soon though), but at this point he has not taken over the # 1 spot, heck .. a lot of people still rank Silva over him, just based on overall merit. And just FYI .. Shogun is my favorite fighter, no doubt about it .. I just feel like he would need a win over either Chuck, or Wand to fully secure the top spot.

I can argue this until I have completely exhausted all the legit reasons why Chuck deserves to be # 1 and the Pride fans will still not accept it. It's just how it is, they will never change so this is more about exposing all of their lame reasons why they feel that Shogun should be #1, even though they know it's all spin, and nothing more than a big pile of crap.

BTW EVIL, I didn't bother reading your huge post.. as usual I read the first line and saw exactly where you were going with it and immediately scrolled down to respond to NORESPECT.

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LMAO! Dude all u did was explain why shogun shouldn't be number 1, and what would happen if Arona won the tournament... then you threw in some spin of DSE, and that somehow equates to Chuck being #1?

Good lord take a critical reasoning course at the local community college!

7

Oh ok...so according to your logic, Chuck was ranked #1, Randy or Tito #2, and Randy or Tito #3... and u are a nonpartial mma fan, responding to the DSE "fanboys"? lol!

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Look at Liddell's record and then look at Shogun's record....

LIDDELL.

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HOLLYWOOD MO .. I see you've firmly planted yourself as another obvious DSE chinballer along with all the other sheep that think it's "cool" to ignore facts.

Yeah, let's compare records ... and it's still LIDDELL

I find it amusing that all the fanboys show up on the same threads agreeing with each others posts.

Pathetic.

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Only a moron huh? Hmm, same can be said for anyone that ranked a guy number 1 when he was on the "bum of the mth tour" at the time, and also had a loss to Ortiz firmly planted on his record, right?

lol Look below for those "KILLERS" that Silva was taking on at the time.

Iwasaki

Tamura

Kanehara

Otsuka

2 wins over the much, much smaller (and completely overmatched) Sakuraba???

A fight with Yoshida where it looked like he carried the "Judo Star"

A blastout of another completely overmatched, and much smaller Minowa?????

A KO over the smaller, and overmatched Kondo .. who was also pummeled by Tito BTW.

He, of course, had a few tough ones mixed in there too .. but shit, the vast majority of them were complete gimmes .. No way you can deny that, now can you?

Randy brought merit with him down from heavyweight, plus .. Tito was clearly the #1 at the time, as he owned a win over DSE's champ, Silva. I don't even like Tito, never have .. but if you ranked him below Wand at that time they you're a total and complete moron. By beating Tito, owning Chuck the first time, and also manhandling Vitor in the rematch ... hell yeah, Randy was the # 1, it's only a matter of what country the fighter is from to you, as I am only looking at facts, and not being a biased clown.

So don't call me a moron, dickhead, when you're flawed logic can be torn apart and exposed for what it is .. An obvious dislike of a single organization and it's fighters, nothing more.

BTW, where the fuck did I say Horn and White were top ranked guys? ..lol Read my posts, moron.

11

sub wrestler give up. U have been humilated on this thread by numerous posts. It is getting embarassing.

Shogun is #1 in the WORLD get over it.

12

Hey Johnny, I knew it was Willie Duit.

13

there is waaaaaaaaaaay too much reading for this thread for me.......

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"Hell..I`d even say Tito is better than most in Pride @ 205. "

seriously bad trolling

15

I say Chuck and Shogun tie for #1 but if I had to rank top 5 with some reasoning.

1.SHOGUN. Just won the the best middleweight tournament ever defeating the best competition. Also, widely seen to be the heir to Wanderlei's throne.

2.Chuck. By a slight second .If he dominates Couteur and knocks out everyone the UFC gives him for the next year he would still need to defeat Shogun to be #1 UNLESS SHOGUN is defeeated in the next year.

  1. Wand. By a slight third. If he can defeat Arona in a rematch he is atleast 2nd if not tied for 1st with Shogun. Obviously if he fights and defeats Shogun he is #1 again.

4.Randy. He was considered #1 by alot of people until stopped by Chuck. If randy can come back and dominate Chuck he is atleast back at #2. And you could probably make an argument for him being #1 if he beats Chuck convincingly.

5.Little Nog .Almost stopped Shogun. But really showed that Shogun has as big a heart as Silva and got up and fought to win a close decision. He obviously has the ability to come back and atleast be very competitive with the best.

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chuck is #1, compare records and quality of opponents, and it is chuck easy

17

yes i can read, and chuck has fought better competition, therefore chuck is #1