The More Things Change.......

Yep

Lets add one...

Why do our wrestlers do so much better than our
Judoka?

Alright...

I've always been interested in 'martial arts', but like most people my age (I'm 22), I didn't know what was realistic (my high school had rugby but no football or wrestling, so I played rugby, so no grappling through school)...

So...

back in 10th grade (schools in Ontario have/had 13 grades), a friend signed up for 'jujutsu' at the end of the year, so I went and checked it out at the start of 11th grade...

I went for about a year off and on (was into other 'regular' sports), and the class ended so I went with another friend to a kung-fu school...

While there I started to ponder the differences in the two classes and learnt more about stuff like the UFC, etc.

I went there for 2 years and left for university.

While there I sparred with a guy who had done some boxing, wrestled with friends, etc. Just had fun with floor mates in other words. But I realized that what I had learnt wasn't that useful.

So the next summer (by then I had come to the conclusion that judo was what I needed), I checked out sambo with Igor Yakimov (another friend was there), and that confirmed that grappling in a sportive situation was the way to go.

So I signed up for judo in school. Since then I've joined the school wrestling team and I'm doing more of that since I know that I'll be doing judo for the rest of my life and can wrestle for the remainer of school.

So I found judo by:

1) already being interested in martial arts

2) having to change programs/martial arts and me wondering why they were so different

3) goofing around with friends and realizing that I couldn't overcome size

4) deciding that a martial art with a proper sparring format would be better

5) deciding that grappling ones could be learnt more readily than striking (ie. boxing at university isn't really happening on campus)

6) going towards judo because it has both standup and ground grappling and because Canadians like to wear clothing to bars =)

judo guy:

Retaining participants isn't a problem unique to Judo. The USGA has complained about the large number of people who quit Golf. They get a lot of new players, but there are also quite a few who quit the game every year, too.

However, Golf is still a healthy and growing sport. If Judo could attract as many new players as Golf, it's "core" participants would jump dramatically.

A new "marketing strategy" is needed to get Judo more in the public eye. Some of the tradition may be sacrificed in the process, but something needs to be done to give Judo a shot in the arm.

Shawn C,

There are lots of things you could do to get public exposure. A simple thing to do would be use the public access channels of local cable companies.

Just tape a tournament or a judo class and give it to the cable companies to air on those channels. They will use it.

But I don't think exposure is the problem.

If I was going to market judo, I would market it as an "extreme" martial art. That would be my target audience. For example,

Here's an idea for a commercial (I guess I've lived in So Cal waaaay tooo long!)

On a mat, solo, is an older man (60-70) in a karate gi, and he is going through kata movements in a very slow manner. Suddenly, you start in rapid fire succession, throws from 101 ippons. Then say "Judo--it isn't your grandfather's martial art" then go back to the old man on the mat still doing kata movements slowly and fade.

But the problem isn't reaching people as much as keeping them.

Judo Guy - I think that's actually a great idea for a commercial!


GWH

How about getting a Judo magazine on the newsstands? Every sport out there has a slick magazine in the public eye. Search high and low for a Judo mag, and you won't find one. You won't find Judo on TV either. How about a decent-sized tournament that advertises their event? I haven't seen it in my area.

Unless they have friends or family who are in the sport, how do new people find out about Judo? If they don't learn about it somehow, then you aren't going to get many new people involved.

Just my perspective.

Shawn C,

Surely, you jest when you compare the retention rate of the game of golf to judo. Golf retains players at a much higher level. Heck, I'm the only guy on my block who doesn't golf on the weekends (or ever). In fact, I might be the only guy who doesn't golf in my entire industry! Are there any retirees in the state of Florida that don't golf? Heck, my father in law is the 3 time president of his country club. He has also shot a hole in one, six different times. All of them after the age of 55. Shoot, I imagine you would find more middle aged and older judoka on the golf course on any given day than in a dojo!

But seriously, Judo has absolutely no chance of ever attracting as many new players as golf. For many of the reasons stated above by myself and others. Just pipe dreams--and I want some of that stuff you've been sticking in the pipe!

Thinking every person is a potential customer is a fool's game. This type of "marketing strategy" also known as the "throw enough shit against the wall and see what sticks" plan doesn't make sense. Do you know of any successful company that would do that?

The most important thing to remember about selling or marketing is to know your customer. Do you think Maybelline would take an ad out in Men's Health magazine? Is McDonald's gonna market the Quarter Pounder to the Hindu community?

So, I think the most important thing is to figure out who the potential judo community really is, try to focus our attention on drawing them into the sport, and keeping them. That is a plan that makes sense.

Sothy,

Thanks. So basically you came into judo from exploring other martial arts. I think there are alot of potential judokas out there training in other ma's too.

GWH,

Thanks. But do you think I would purposely post a bad idea? :)

fixed and archived

hang on there, sothy; i'll try to find out where the french guy i knew is from; he doesn't work with me any more, but is still in town . . .

jimmy o'curry

Dallas Judo and joemurphy,

Yep. You guys understand what I'm saying. Its only when we as judoka in the U.S. accept these obvious truths can we really move forward.

See, I want to remove all this judo guilt we have.

American judo has been apologetic for too long. We keep blaming ourselves and our brethren for the lack of popularity of the sport. Time to throw away the defensiveness.

Judo--It ain't for everyone. Too bad it ain't for you.

That should be our new slogan!

Judo Guy,

I agree with you that judo will always be a niche sport. In all the TKD schools I've ever seen, there are black belts who never got kicked in the head. They advanced in rank through kata, breaking boards and pounding bags/focus mitts. If you look at the people in the Olympic sparring classes in TKD schools, you'll find a small number of fairly tough people (the TKD niche). The vast majority of the people paying the rent in those facilities are the non-competitive type.

In judo, there are no boards to break and the katas are too damn hard for raw beginners. Sooner or later, you are going to have to bounce off of the floor! For that reason, I think Judo will always be a niche sport.

Here's a question for you though. You say judoka need to realize it's a niche sport and then move forward. What exactly do you propose we do to "move forward"?

Punk Dobbs,

Fair question. Not sure I really have the answer! Worse, I'm not even sure there is an answer! But let me share with you some of my thinking and maybe you can help me come up with some answers.

First a little background on how my thought process has developed over the last several years.

As stated in a previous post, I honestly believe that everyone could benefit from judo. Because of this belief, I have always been a passionate advocate of its practice for everyone.

At the dojo I belong to, I was usually the person who would speak to the walk-ins. I consider myself a pretty good salesman, and I was able to convince the overwhelming majority of people I spoke with to give judo a try. I was able to convince many of my kids friends to train also.

Now on the surface, that probably sounds great. Here's the problem with it. Out of all those people that ever walked on the mat, and all those people that I convinced to try judo, none of them practiced long enough to become good. Not one. No matter what extra effort I put into them or the instructors put into them, they eventually left. It is the classic"you can lead them to water, but not make them drink" scenario.

The problem is in the same classes that you have these students who are gonna drop out, you have students who are custom made for judo also. The problem comes because your attention is taken away from those who need it, to give it to those who aren't gonna make a damn bit of difference going down the road. Because you have to reduce the intensity of the training to accomodate these never gonna be's, you create an environment that isn't as challenging or interesting for those who need the help.

See my thinking now says its better to lose 100 of those eventual quitters than to create an environment that loses just one lifer.

Think back to all those guys you knew through your life in judo. How many of those people had talent you would have cut your left arm off for? I could name 20 off the top of my head. Yet, alot of them left, and I think I know the major reason--boredom.

Anytime I was able to catch up with these guys, it seemed they had left judo to go do something else that caught their interest. Something to challenge them. Can't say that I blame them.

Here's the thing about the lifers also. They end up having kids. Ever take a look at the names of the kids and adults winning tournaments these days? Lots of familiar names if you've been around the sport for a long time. Personally, I'm a second generation guy myself. So when you chase away the potential lifers, you are chasing away future generations of judo players also.

So what does this all mean? I think it means we have to reassess our value systems. Forget about trying to make judo a sport for everyone. How do we find those potential lifers and make sure we keep them? I don't know. That's why I'm here. Hoping to get some good input from the rest of you lifers!

Just a few more thoughts.

Part of the reason I don't know the answer is because most of the time I was trying to figure out how to make judo appealling to others. What I should have been concentrating on is figuring out how to make judo more appealling to guys who are like me and my other fellow judokas.

But for some reason, we never talk about those things. We are always trying to figure out how to capture the interest of Joe "like I'll ever give a damn what a koka is" Doe, than talking to each other and finding out more about us. If we figure out what makes us tick, maybe we can find it easier to find other nut cases like us!

Because I'm a second generation guy, I don't have much to add about how I got to this place. Its pretty self explanatory. What I'd like to know is how you first generation guys got interested, and what keeps you interested. What is it about your personality that makes you a judo lifer?

archive this thread...

seems that I read wrong about France =)

Man, as for what got me into judo...hmmmm. Oddly enough I'll have to think about it...(none of my family does judo or any martial art).