Ive been saying for years he was the most DANGEROUS sub guy not necessarily the best MMA grappler/BJJ guy as Maia and perhaps Jacare might have had arguments there. He has the most subs in the UFC for a reason. He also has i believe now 25 UFC fights. He has also been subbed a number of times himself, often after gassed and at FW. He has had trouble making FW but now has finally settled at LW.
But now, he is clearly peaking and has rounded out so many other parts of his game. Sub-wise, he was more of an opportunistic submission artist - must like Fergusion. I don’t think he has ever shown this level of positional dominance before and against someone who is no slouch on the ground in Ferg. His passes and sub attempts etc were fucking silky smooth.
HIs wrestling has also improved clearly.
And his striking and his poise, patience and fight IQ has clearly improved and due to this, probably less likely to go wild like before and gas.
He is going to be trouble for any LW. He may have even been the most challenging fight to Khabib now in retrospect.
How do you see Khabib vs Oliveira going Wiggs? Both sides’ standup have really improved as well. It would be interesting to see Khabib finally have a challenge on the ground. I remember some saying Ortega might be the one do that…
Olveira has kinda been like Rumina Sato, Frank Mir in if he didn’t sub you early, he usually falls apart? Or like Vitor: flashes of utter brilliance but didn’t seem to have it all together to weather the storms to be a true contender.
Olivera out struck Tony 80s -20s and he also handle kevin lee on the feet. I don't see McGregor or Poirier doing well against him. I anticipate Olivera being the betting favorite from here on out.
Wasa-B - How do you see Khabib vs Oliveira going Wiggs? Both sides' standup have really improved as well. It would be interesting to see Khabib finally have a challenge on the ground. I remember some saying Ortega might be the one do that....
It’d be interesting to see what gameplan Khabib implemented. The Usman v. Maia gameplan would be boring, but very safe.
I’d pick Khabib to win via Felder smash. But, Olivera by guillotine would be a live possibility.
Chin and striking scare me a bit. He stands pretty straight up and doesn't move his head a lot. I like Charles, so I hope I'm wrong. Would be great to see this guy hold the belt.Â
If Khabib fights again I really hope it’s vs Charles. Both have improved striking yes but do you honestly see Khabib getting a KO win? Not likely, he’s a mauler. And mauling requires going to the ground where Charles is miles ahead of anyone he’s faced skillwise. Would Charles go for his own take downs? Those grappling exhanges have so much potential for fireworks. It’d test Khabib like he hasn’t been tested before
If Khabib fights again I really hope it’s vs Charles. Both have improved striking yes but do you honestly see Khabib getting a KO win? Not likely, he’s a mauler. And mauling requires going to the ground where Charles is miles ahead of anyone he’s faced skillwise. Would Charles go for his own take downs? Those grappling exhanges have so much potential for fireworks. It’d test Khabib like he hasn’t been tested before
I’m not sure that Charles is miles ahead of anyone Khabib has fought on the ground. I think he is by far the most dangerous grappler Khabib has fought. But, the Felder fight shows that he might be a bit of a Frank Mir on bottom – extremely dangerous, but as risk of getting out positioned.
RDA, by contrast, is amazing at maintaining good position and getting back to his feet. And Conor’s defensive BJJ is very, very good.
He impressed the hell out of me. The current LW division might be the most stacked ever if you include Khabib and Tony. Maybe these two have now left the Top 5 for different reasons, but both might also be back sooner than later.
make fights so I do think Oliveria is the most rounded fighter. And Khabib. But pointless if the ex-champ remains retired.
If Khabib fights again I really hope it’s vs Charles. Both have improved striking yes but do you honestly see Khabib getting a KO win? Not likely, he’s a mauler. And mauling requires going to the ground where Charles is miles ahead of anyone he’s faced skillwise. Would Charles go for his own take downs? Those grappling exhanges have so much potential for fireworks. It’d test Khabib like he hasn’t been tested before
I’m not sure that Charles is miles ahead of anyone Khabib has fought on the ground. I think he is by far the most dangerous grappler Khabib has fought. But, the Felder fight shows that he might be a bit of a Frank Mir on bottom – extremely dangerous, but as risk of getting out positioned.
RDA, by contrast, is amazing at maintaining good position and getting back to his feet. And Conor’s defensive BJJ is very, very good.
Ha! Made the same comparison Wiggs…the old Oliveira was reminiscent of a Mir and also Rumina Sato. I always called Mir the HW Sato. Or also like a Vitor…flashes of absolute brilliance but also often fell apart if it didn’t go his way.
However, the new peaking Oliveira at LW and complete positional and technical dominance of Tony on the ground shows another level. Mir or Sato never showed that level of positional skill.
If Khabib fights again I really hope it’s vs Charles. Both have improved striking yes but do you honestly see Khabib getting a KO win? Not likely, he’s a mauler. And mauling requires going to the ground where Charles is miles ahead of anyone he’s faced skillwise. Would Charles go for his own take downs? Those grappling exhanges have so much potential for fireworks. It’d test Khabib like he hasn’t been tested before
I’m not sure that Charles is miles ahead of anyone Khabib has fought on the ground. I think he is by far the most dangerous grappler Khabib has fought. But, the Felder fight shows that he might be a bit of a Frank Mir on bottom – extremely dangerous, but as risk of getting out positioned.
RDA, by contrast, is amazing at maintaining good position and getting back to his feet. And Conor’s defensive BJJ is very, very good.
Ha! Made the same comparison Wiggs…the old Oliveira was reminiscent of a Mir and also Rumina Sato. I always called Mir the HW Sato. Or also like a Vitor…flashes of absolute brilliance but also often fell apart if it didn’t go his way.
However, the new peaking Oliveira at LW and complete positional and technical dominance of Tony on the ground shows another level. Mir or Sato never showed that level of positional skill.
Yeah. Luke Thomas has made the point that we might be a bit foolish to judge Olivera but the totality of his UFC career since he was barely legal to drink when he came in. The guy has matured a lot in front of our eyes. It’ll be interesting to see what happens if/when he hits adversity again.
Another guy who matured in front of us was Porrier, who became mentally so much tougher in front of us.
Oliveria now ranked #3 on official UFC rankings. If the UFC is smart and doesn't want to lose top talent like they lost Mousasi they can do a few things.
1. Book Gaethje vs Oliveira for a title fight vs Connor/Poirier winner - Let Chandler (who's not tested himself against anyone in the UFC) fight a Kevin Lee, RDA, Beneil, Felder, Hooker level opponent. Chandler is underserving of a top 5 guy.
2. Book Max Holloway vs Oliveira - Oliveira would have a chance to avenge is loss and gain star power at the same time.
3. Do not force Oliveira to fight down again unless there is major financial incentive.
If Khabib fights again I really hope it’s vs Charles. Both have improved striking yes but do you honestly see Khabib getting a KO win? Not likely, he’s a mauler. And mauling requires going to the ground where Charles is miles ahead of anyone he’s faced skillwise. Would Charles go for his own take downs? Those grappling exhanges have so much potential for fireworks. It’d test Khabib like he hasn’t been tested before
I’m not sure that Charles is miles ahead of anyone Khabib has fought on the ground. I think he is by far the most dangerous grappler Khabib has fought. But, the Felder fight shows that he might be a bit of a Frank Mir on bottom – extremely dangerous, but as risk of getting out positioned.
RDA, by contrast, is amazing at maintaining good position and getting back to his feet. And Conor’s defensive BJJ is very, very good.
The Felder fight was three years ago, I think part of what makes Charles so special is how much he’s come into his own, evolved, and rounded out his game, after so many fights deep in the ufc. I honestly don’t think he’s the same fighter skillwise that fought Felder.
And you’re somewhat missing my point, you speak of defensive bjj which I agree is obviously important, but the difference would be how offensive he potentially could be with his grappling vs Khabib. In which I feel he is miles ahead of everyone Khabib has faced, maybe with the exception of RDA…but Charles has the most submissions in ufc history for a reason