The Rapture!

This is something that's been on my mind since the new year. Man, can you guys imagine turning on the news one day and BAM! CNN is reporting that millions of people have mysteriously disappeared?!

I would like to think that I would be one of those taken home to God, but if not...I actually wouldn't mind. I have friends and family that would need my help in understanding the circumstances of what's going on.

The time of the Rapture would also be the precusor to the Anti-Christ and the days of the Great Tribulation. I think during these chaotic times the world would need "rebels" and "fighters" for Christ, and I'd like to be one of those people; just helping bring light during really dark times.

What would you guys do if you woke up or turned on the tv to find out the Rapture just took place and you weren't one of those taken?

I don't know what I'd think.I truly believe that I will be one of the people who are gone.If you believe in Jesus Christ (as your post seems to indicate that you do),you're going to be raptured as well.There will be a substantial number of people who will be "awakened" by the Rapture and will convert to Christianity.They will spread the word.

I definitely understand where you are coming from (I think..lol).I want to work for Christ.I want to be a soldier w/ Michael and Gabriel,I want to spread the word however I can.I try to do God's will although I always come up short.When you have felt the Holy Spirit,you want others to feel it as well so I think I know what you mean by wanting to stay here to spread the good news.You won't be here though,but there will be many converts who will be working for God.

keep waiting

Cool idea, you should write a book about it.

;-)

Jesus by armbar, 2:10, rd 1.

What would you guys do if you woke up or turned on the tv to find out the Rapture just took place and you weren't one of those taken?

Take their job.

j/k

Roman War Helmet what do you mean by "keep waiting?"

GRYAN, I think what Roman War Helmet is saying is that for hundreds of years now, just about every generation has it's percentage of folks who swear that the Rapture is coming, and that right soon. These numbers are swelled around the turn of every century, and especially around the turn of a millenium. There are historians who said there was a very similar movement in 1000 AD as well. Biblical "scholars" who swore they had scriptural evidence that the Rapture was before the next Super Bowl. Heck, I saw some of the retards on TBN swearing this up and down just the other week (among them, Kirk Cameron). And yet, we're still here. The guys who swore the Rapture was coming in 1000 AD were wrong, as well as the folks who swore it was coming in 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400, 1500, 1600, 1700, 1800, 1900, etc. So, the best advice for the Rapture, if you do believe in it literally, is: when it comes, we don't know. Stop worrying about it, and live as you feel you should.

There are tons of people who swear to know the exact date of the Rapture!Many people believe 2005 as the Aztec calender,Nostrodamus,the Bible code,etc.,all predict that the world will end around 2012.I personally believe that the Rapture will happen.I have absolutely no idea when it will happen though (nor do I believe that anybody really knows when it will happen).I'm not worried about it and will be fine if it doesn't happen during my lifetime.Chances are that it won't.

Jesus actually said that he'll come back "suddenly",meaning w/o warning.This has been translated as "soon" although it's a lot closer to suddenly.Even if Jesus said soon,nobody knows what soon means.Several things have to happen (temple in Jerusalem has to be rebuilt,there's a Mosque there now)before the rapture.

For anybody who gets this mixed up,the Rapture is not the End.It is the beginning of the Tribulation that will last for 7 years.All true believers will be raptured.Basically,there'll be a lot of people who are suddenly gone w/o a trace.Every believer that is on Earth (alive) when the rapture happens won't have to go through a death.

Revelation is considered a controversial book.I really don't understand this.If you are a believer,it is a glorious book and a promise of what's to come (could be a million years from now or more!).For non believers,it's just a bunch of crap.I don't know why it's controversial or scary.I've met a lot of people who claim to be Christians (mostly when I was younger and not a believer but it still happens now)that speak of Revelation as if it's a terrifying part of the scriptures.I must say that as a Christian,I believe in love.A lot of what I write may look like doom and damnation,but that's not what I'm all about (nor was Jesus).Jesus was about love and that's what made me a believer.I recieved the Holy Spirit and it was unbelievable.I try not to judge others as this is not for me to do.Even if somebody is a Satanist,extremely anti-Christian,etc.,I still would have a cup of coffee w/ them and wish them the best.

IMO there are WAY too many "Christians" who don't act as if they are believers.When I hear somebody say that they hate Christianity,I understand to a certain degree.The people that are discussed on this board (Pat Robertson,Jimmy Swaggert,etc.),all of the disgusting crimes that have been carried out "in the name of God",etc.,I can't stand these people's "Christian" church either.Anyways,just wanted you guys to know that I might be coming off as a lot different than I am.I love and believe in Jesus Christ and the Scriptures.I also have a lot of criticisms of the church (both Catholic and Protestant).The bottom line for me is love though.People tried to ram Jesus down my throat as well as try to scare me into being a Christian.None of that worked and I really don't believe that it ever does.I know I'm rambling.Just wanted to let you guys know a little about myself since I started posting on this board a few days ago and most of my posts have had to do w/ Revelation.

Regards,

Donald Jakob Steger

tapout pretty much nailed it...

tapout54nb and roman war helmut,thanks i thought that might be it.i don't subscribe to the rapture /left behind stuff but if others choose to........well thats ok by me.

Legion-X,

If the Rapture did take place and we were not taken, it does NOT close our chances at salvation or going to heaven. If anything, the Rapture would force people to look for answers--in science, religion, e.t.'s, etc. And in my opinion, millions would convert to Christ.

So from my understanding, those left behind would still have the opportunity for salvation. However, and according to scripture, after the Rapture would mean the Great Tribulation and a time with the Anti-Christ in power (world power). Now taking this into consideration, those who would proclaim JC as their God would result in persecution, if not death, due to the Anti-Christ's reign.

So basically, ya we'd still have a chance, but it'd be tougher to do so without being branded a "Christian" and persecuted or killed.

Now as far as the saying that every century people are claiming that the Rapture is gonna take place, but never happens, understand this--there are particular events or signs that need to be met in order for Armagedon to occur. First was the "rebirth" of Israel, and this did not happen until 1948. The day Israel became a nation, the countdown to Revelations started (Israel is God's timepiece).

So when I think that the Rapture will occur in my generation, I say so because of the fact that the countdown has started.

That is all
em

you can justify almost anything with scripture, rapture included...but there is no specific mention of it in the bible...now you can go quote me whatever passages you want that you believe refer to the rapture, but it was never spoken of specifically...that calls into doubt its concept, not to mention the history surrounding the idea...

the idea of the rapture is one of the biggest frauds in christianity, and it detracts from a wonderful religion

What Roman War Helmet just stated should make one (it make me) all the more "watchful" for rapture.

Why?

Because it will be during the time of where doubt and skeptism concerning the rapture is common and prevalent and everything seems to be normal and "business as usual" that Christ will rapture the Church.

"Like a thief in the night" is how Christ characterized His return. And those who 'prepared' themselves won't be surprised. Christ also compared His return as King who has gone on a long journey leaving His manner to His stewards. The king is going to return and He expects His stewards to be busy when He comes. A faithful steward will always be mindful of His masters return and will diligently do the work his master left him to do until his master returns regardless how long this may take. The unfaithful steward say his master won't return and instead of doing the right things (the things which the master left for him to do) he does his own thing. He does his own thing because he doesn't thing the master will ever return. Well the King does return as He promised. And those who were found waiting for Him and doing His work while they waited will be the most pleased. Whereas those who didn't expect the masters return will be the most caught of guard and fearful.

"you can justify almost anything with scripture, rapture included...but there is no specific mention of it in the bible...now you can go quote me whatever passages you want that you believe refer to the rapture, but it was never spoken of specifically...that calls into doubt its concept, not to mention the history surrounding the idea...
the idea of the rapture is one of the biggest frauds in christianity, and it detracts from a wonderful religion "

dude were i agree with you on justifying anything with scripture i have to disagree about the rapture being in scripture. the word rapture might not be there but "rapture" is just the word used to define the events surronding the return of christ and the saints being caught up with him in the sky!



Also for some others a few points that should be clarified.

"The time of the Rapture would also be the precusor to the Anti-Christ and the days of the Great Tribulation"

- actually the church is still on earth at the revealing of the Man of Lawlessness, not gone! also the Rapture is not the beginning of the Tribulation but actually the beginning of the "great Wrath" which is the end of the tribulation!

Got to disagree w/ you on the Rapture not being the beginning of the Tribulation kempowrestler.How did you come to this conclusion?

I believe in what Evilmonk said.The Rapture will be the beginning of the Tribulation,the antichrist will come to dominate the world,3.5 years of peace in Israel,ecumenical church (based on something good,but will turn out horribly),believers "literally" raptured or taken,the temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem (where the Dome of the Rock is now),etc.Many people will convert to Christianity and there will be many witnesses.Imagine talking to somebody on the corner,watching a live television broadcast,being on a bus w/ other people,etc.,and seeing them vanish before your eyes.The only thing that will remain to show that they were there is what they're wearing (clothes,jewelry,glasses,et. al).It is my hope that many people hear about these things in case it does happen in our lifetime.Even if one is not a believer,it would warrant some serious investigation if this happens in this person's lifetime.They would see that the prophecies are coming true.

The antichrist will be Satan's pawn.He will rise to power most likely from slick political maneuvering.He will be extremely charming,smart,etc.Satan is VERY powerful and will give the antichrist power.He will perform miracles (like Jesus),be martyred (like Jesus),and resurrected (like Jesus).They seem pretty similar except for the fact that Jesus is the son of God and the antichrist will have all of his power from Satan............Satan will also be responsible for resurrecting the antichrist.He will be worshipped by many who believe that he is the son of God due to all of these things that he'll do and also his resurrection.The Antichrist will break his oath w/ Israel and turn against it.As Satan knows that his time is limited,anti-semitism will be put in overdrive.(I'm sorry to say,but persecution of the Jews will continue until the glorious appearance of Jesus Christ at the end of the Tribulation).

Many Jews will convert to Christianity during the tribulation.There is so much more,I'm tired and know that I could be typing on here all night.I'll just say that Jews truly are the chosen people of God.There are many different interpretations of this but I do believe that God loves Jews very much (as he loves everybody).They were chosen to hear the word of God first,Jesus and his disciples were all Jews,144,000 Jews in the battle,etc.

To add to what Evilmonk answered in terms of salvation during the tribulation,many will convert.Martyrdom is an ultimate in Christianity (i.e. Jesus).A true believer will die for his belief in Jesus Christ and will be rewarded beyond any of our wildest dreams.

I'm sure I've screwed up some things that I've written as I am to lazy to look things up right now.I completely understand that I probably sound like a delusional Zealot right now to many of you,but this is my reality.I didn't feel the Holy Spirit and convert to Christianity (for real)until I was nearly 25.I had a very similar experience akin to what somebody else on this board had.Can't remember who,the man who spoke in tongues.Anyways,I know this might sound crazy to some,but to me it is what is to come........eventually.

read Matthew 24.

6 "You will be hearing of (8) wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.
7 "For (9) nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be (10) famines and earthquakes.
8 "(11) But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
9 "(12) Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and (13) you will be hated by all nations because of My name....

then...

5 "Therefore when you see the (20) ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in (21) the holy place ((22) let the reader understand),
16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
17 "Whoever is on (23) the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
18 "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
19 "But (24) woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
20 "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.
21 "For then there will be a (25) great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.


then


29 "But immediately after the (35) tribulation of those days (36) THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND (37) THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 "And then (38) the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see (39) the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
31 "And (40) He will send forth His angels with (41) A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His (42) elect from (43) the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other....


40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
41 "(53) Two women will be grinding at the (54) mill; one will be taken and one will be left.


the tribulation starts at the the Anti Christ standing in the Holy of holies.



and the rapture takes place at the GREAT Trumpet or better known as the Great Wrath!


I think Jesus in Matt 24 as well as in Luke 17 describes two different moments in regards to the rapture and the seconding coming of Christ.

In Matt 24:37-42 and Luke 17:26-36 Jesus uses Noah and Lot as examples of how the "coming of the Son of man" will be like.

Notice how Jesus alludes to the environment and circumstances BEFORE Noah (and his family) was TAKEN AWAY in the ark and BEFORE Lot (and his family) was TAKEN AWAY by the angels. Everything was "business as usual.

The people during the time of Noah and Lot, BEFORE they were TAKEN AWAY, ate, drank, married, brought, sold, planted and builded (Matt 24:38; Lk 17:28).

Chaos, tribulation, turmoil DID NOT occur UNTIL AFTER Noah (and his Family) and Lot (and his family) were removed from that environment.

If you go back and read the stories of Noah and Lot (Gen 6:1-22, 7:17,18; 19:22-25) you'll see that the above statement is true. Not UNTIL Noah (and His family) and Lot (and his family) were REMOVED did the flood and the fire and birmstone happen. And both the flood and the fire/ birmstone represented God's wrath.

It is also important to note that both Noah and Lot were called preachers of righteousness and righteous ones who endured the evils of their time (2 Peter 2:5 -9).

The rapture can occur at anytime this is why Christ told us to be watchful and to be ready for His return (Mt 24:42-51). The time and moment when we least expect it is the time when it will most likely occur. So I submit that it won't happen in a time where there is trouble and tribulation BUT rather when there is a time of peace and business as usual.

The whole premise, point, admonition of being watchful and ever-ready makes more sense if the rapture can occur anytime particular at during a time of peace ad business as usual because that is when a person needs to be the most watch and ready. In a time of chaos and tribulation one will naturally be ready because the circumstance will encourage one to be that way. Whereas in a time of peace it take much much more in terms of faith, diligence and patience to be watchful and ever-ready as well as mindful to do the work the Lord has given us to do.

Nicely put m.g.My pastor has even used the time of Noah as you just did.

Kempowrestler,these are just the things that I have read and been tought (taught?now I can't spell).I do believe that the Tribulation will not occur until after the Rapture.I am extremely lucky in that my father is a Revelation scholar.He has so many resources on the book and I love looking at them.I definitely need to go over it more as my understanding is subpar,but pretty much everything I've ever read has stated that the Rapture will occur "suddenly" and "without warning" and that the Tribulation will start right after it.These are just my beliefs and I respect yours.I will look into the book of Matthew and read up on what you have suggested.Although I talk about the contents of the book of Revelation a lot,I do not think that it is important to be absolutely right about it.I know that I write and say things that are wrong as I am nowhere near the scholar that I hope to be.I do believe in Jesus Christ and I do believe the prophecies within Revelation will come true.I appreciate your input as I'm very open to finding the truth.Please excuse my ignorance as I get ahead of myself at times.

Regards,

Donald Jakob Steger

"In Matt 24:37-42 and Luke 17:26-36 Jesus uses Noah and Lot as examples of how the "coming of the Son of man" will be like"

yes but like the time of Noah! but guess what Noah new that the rains were coming! and from the location of the refrence to Noah, it's clear that the inference is dealing with the Revelry and debouchary in society!

Secondily notice the use of the word "THEN" it is a word used to show chronology! or a time frame!

secondily there is nothing in this scripture that even hints at a two seperate occassions! and I would erge you to find a refrence some where that states a two part return, actually Rev. states the exact opposite

there are six trumpets...then the seventh angel with the seventh trumpet doesn't sound his trumpet just yet. there is the revealing of the beast and the harlot etc. then in REV 14...the key to the "rapture" the angels have come to harvest the fruits of the vine