oh protein shakes definitely helped, plus they taste good.
Sweet......
protein powder didnt help?
Guyz this is THE suppliment thread....
I wannna hear your personal experiences and that of those you know with suppliments.
Here is a basic list of some
Whey protein variants
Creatine variants.
Casein
Chromium picolinate
Chondrotin/Glucosmine
ZMA
L Arginine
DHA/EHA
Vandyl Sulfate
Multi Vitamin/Mineral
Aspirin
Yohimbe
E/C/A
Epherine
Flaxseed oil
Met-rx
Advocare products
Please add others!!
THe point of this thread is to determine what is most beneficial and what from your experiences is garbage, there is too much stuff out there to know what is beneficial for you without a guide so lets do it....
please dont pass this up
Personally I use a combo of Carb powder with a mix of high and low Gl carbs and Whey protein made by redback and have had good results with the odd dizzy spell when i have it with food. So i changed the times i took it and no more of that.
I also use flaxseed oil daily and feel great in general when i take it though it could be placebo lol
andro = made my face break out
protein powder = tastes good
multi vitamins = make me feel good and i dont get sick
creatine = gained water weight
ephedrine = I'll let you know
ttt
pizza beer and weights will bulk you up
Whey protein variants -- good way to get protein for post workouts, or to make your own meal-replacement drinks for convenience; way overrated in terms of 'bioavailability' hype and such. It just hasn't added a whole lot of muscle to the world since its introduction in spite of all the "vast superiority" claims of one type or another.
Creatine variants--there's a thread on creatine which sums up my views. I think it's good for what it is.
Casein--If you're not going to be eating another protein meal for more than a few hours, this is slower-digesting than whey; no real reason to supplement with it, again, except for convenience in meal replacements. Meat is slow-digesting, too, y'know? More useful for lacto-vegetarians, I suppose.
Chromium picolinate--if you're deficient in chromium it'll help. Otherwise not.
Chondrotin/Glucosmine--Glucosamine seems to work as an anti-inflammatory if taken regularly for a couple of months. I don't know if it really helps regenerate cartilage or not. Chondroitin is supposed to help with joint lubrication, but I've never had a synovial fluid problem, so no opinion.
ZMA--unlikely to do anything but correct for a zinc or magnesium deficiency. I think many people don't get enough magnesium... this is an absurdly expensive form of it, however.
L Arginine--is this still being bandied about at a "Growth Hormone Releaser"? Unlikely to do anything. I took Arginine/Ornithine back in the day without noticing any effect.
DHA/EHA--presumably DHA/EPA? These are good oils, again good to supplement if people don't get enough in their diets. DHA is particularly good for brain function, EPA for heart function. There is an enzyme that converts more basic oils into these (must get your omega-3's!), but some people are low on the enzyme and do better to supplement with these directly.
Vandyl Sulfate--get a temporary "pump" feeling if you're working out in higher rep ranges.... I think it's a waste of money. Also not a good idea for those on ketogenic diets, contrary to Dan Duchaine's original "BodyOpus" recommendations.
Multi Vitamin/Mineral--Good insurance for what is inevitably a less than perfect diet. Oxidative stress is higher for people who work out hard than for sedentary people, too, so especially important for those who are athletic. If you eat a really well balanced diet from good sources, you may not need one (still, it's hard to get enough of certain things--especially Vitamin E--from diet alone, even in ideal circumstances).
Aspirin--good for headaches. Thins the blood, which makes it bad for fighting if you're likely to get cut. Some people think thinner blood helps with nutrient transport to muscles and that aspirin is, therefore, somewhat "anabolic". No idea if this is true, but I'd hate to depend on it.
Yohimbe--if it's standardized well, helps with male sexual function. I don't know how well it's really doing as a beta-agonist (fat loss agent) but I don't think it's that big a deal in that area. I also wonder if it might be somewhat toxic; as far as I know, it's not been studied too well still. I'm a little leery of eating tree bark on the off chance it might improve my sex life.
E/C/A--it works, it's not worth it. Full details in archive, in "attn: ali... xenadrine?" thread. I think it may not work for the reasons marketed, even to the extent it does work, however.
Epherine--Epehdrine is the "E" in E/C/A. It, in particular, is the piece that might work for reasons other than those in the marketing claims. I think whatever small benefit it confers isn't worth the downsides... again, details in the archive.
Flaxseed oil--It's rare to find someone who gets enough omega-3 oils; the omega-6 to omega-3 ratio in the "normal" diet is highly skewed in favor of the former, which leads to all kinds of health problems. Flax oil is a good source of omega-3's.
Met-rx--much like the "whey" or "casein" comments... it's just a convenience. High protein, mostly casein, with a lot of carbs. It's just for convenience when you can't get to a real meal.
Advocare products--it's just a brand that has gotten a little more than annoying because of their multi-level marketing status. The products seem fine, nothing unique... usually you can get a competitor's product that will be much the same for much less money. They seem almost cult-ish in their marketing.
Ali superb and honest post....
is there any supps i missed that are mainstream u can comment on? ALso any i missed u deem as vital or even helpful?
I think citrimax (aka -hydrocitic acid, aka "hydroxygen" aka garcinia cambogia aka a few other names) is not worth much; it does make you feel a little naseated and suppress appetite a bit; I don't think it's panned out as something to prevent the conversion of carbs into fats, which is what it's supposed to do.
HMB is also I think worthless--probably has some effect at quantities that are absurd. Much the same can be said of pyruvate.
There are many medicinal herbs that are probably good, but not directly "sports supplements". Like I think Echinacea and Goldenseal help people get over the flu or colds a little more quickly than they would otherwise. I think Ashwaghanda and Damiana can improve male sex drive. Tribulus seems to do that for a lot of people, too, though it's notoriously badly standardized. Herbal medicine is something well beyond my expertise, though I'm sure some things are helpful for some purposes which may impact sports performance indirectly. I actually do think there's something to all the coleus forskholi supplements that are finally hitting the sports market, for dieting purposes, but I'm not sure.
I'm not sold on glutamine as an ergogenic aid though the theory behind it makes some sense.
There are a lot of antioxidants in addition to what's found in most vitamin/mineral formulas. Grape seed extract, pycnogenol, Co-enzyme Q-10, lutein, lycopene, alpha-lipoic acid, n-acetyl cysteine, etc.... some of them have a more direct effect on some systems than others. Like Co-Q10 for heart and brain, lutein for eyes, lycopene for 'nads, etc.... but these fall into roughly the same area as what I said about vitamins and minerals. That is, oxidative stress is higher when you work out, and these are just other antioxidants. A very few of the more expensive "multis" have a good amount of these things; most multi's don't. a-lipoic acid might help with body composition for those who are a bit carb-crazy, but I'm semi-guessing here. Seems to help me, and it is a really great antioxidant so worth taking anyway.... though too much will cause me to just crash.
I think there's some promise for other immune boosters, too--Reishi, Maitake, and Shiitake mushrooms (though not sure there aren't some side-effects if taken in sufficient quantities to do anything good), beta glucans.... some others I'm not thinking of offhand.
I'm rambling off the top of my head. The only other things I can think of are some of the "adaptogens" might help recovery and to deal with stress... Siberian Ginseng (which a lot of people say improves their endurance), other Ginsengs (American, White, and Red, in order from least to most stimulating), Cordyceps....
So far I'm not impressed with any of the pro-hormones, ecdysterone, methoxyflavone.... whatever this months flavor of miracle-muscle-building pill is.
Are you sorry you asked, yet, LEMon? LOL.
Ali pretty much covered all the bases, I don't have much to add... limiting my comments in an attempt to be non redundant, here's what I have:
Whey protein variants - Convenient source of protein. Whey concentrate giving the most bang for the $- isolates are disproportionately more expensive in regard to nutritional value. As far as recovery is concerned, they are equal. In terms of purity, isolate has a insignificantly (insignificant in my opinion) lower fat/carb content.
Casein - Cheap(http://www.americancasein.com/ !!!) good quality protein, more ideal for MRP's than whey IMO due to absorption rate.
ZMA -I've never had my zinc/magnesium levels assessed, but I like this supplement; it's a fantastic sleep aid for me and for others whom I know have tried it. Increases quality of sleep for me, feel much more rested, and experience vivid dreams. At $~20/month it's well worth it to me. (Lee Aldridge is an advocate of this product for similar reasons I believe?)
Multi Vitamin/Mineral -I prefer individual vitamins taken seperately. Multi vit's try to combine too much all into one pill and IMO wind up with something that has less than perfect absorption for many of the micronutrients. ALso many mix in poor quality materials.
Yohimbe - Not fond of this at all, but do like yohimbine HCL. Yohimbe extract contains many (undesireable/harmful)alkaloids other than yohimbine HCL (which is the one you want).
Final thought for now: I must point out one of my all-time favorite threads on this subject... on the archive, HERTSWENIP's post: "Guaranteed Results! Best Supplements...."
Don't miss it.
not at all
awesome post bro awesome.
Whats your experience with flaxseed/DHA? Can u actualyl "Feel" it helps?
Love the Promax bars. Just ordered more from Sportpharma and they have Rocky Road flavor now. It taste great.
I take a multi vitamin and a garlic tablet every day. I still seem to get sick to often but i think it is from my swing shifts I work.
Whey: Have used it for several years. Last year switched to protein factory products and currently am sold in them. Does it make a difference for strength or size gains?... I can't say. When I began experimenting with homemade recovery drinks it made a huge difference. My cardio made an immediate improvement. Would a piece of lean meat and starchy carb done the same. Maybe, but whey is very convienient and easy. Also, there may be health promotion benefits related to the immunoglobulins found in high quality whey.
Creatine; gained 15 lbs in six weeks using it but felt very bloated and didn't like it.
Casein: I eat a bowl of cottage cheese slathered with olive oil each night before retiring. Has it helped me strength wise?...I don't know. I do know that every morning after eating this mixture I wake up with a diamond cutter which pleases my wife LOL. If I do not eat this it definitely doesn't have the uh..er..same tone.
Chromium: Used it for weight loss at one time and realized no benefit.
DHA/EPA: Have used it intermittently in the past but started using it more last fall. I quit using it because it was definitely making me bleed profusely from cuts I received while working my farm. I began using six grams a day last fall as an experiment. In about three months I gained one inch on my arms without specifically working my arms. Also, I talked my wife into taking it. Her skin has become softer and her hair thicker. She used to suffer from bad pms and cramps. Her periods have become regular and she has very little cramping or pms symptoms.
Flaxseed oil: Have used it for years. Currently I eat ground flax seeds to get my oil. My wife uses the capsules. Back before I quit distance running I used flaxseed oil to keep the inflammation down in my knee. If I ran out and didn't take any in 5-6 days my knee would become inflamed. Once I began to take it again in 6-7 days the inflammation would subside. After my wife quit breastfeeding I searched for a way to get EFAs into my son's diet. I finally settled on flaxseed oil and liquid vitamins mixed in his juice. Now this is purely anecdotal but he doubled his vocabulary in about four weeks after beginning the oil. I still supplement him and he is six years old. His eye sight is unbelievable. My family is blessed with excellent eyesight but his is almost incredible. I'm a firm beliver in EFA supplementation now.
Multi vitamin/mineral: Have taken one for years now and am definitely rundown by midmorning if I've forgotten to take it. I also take dessicated liver, a separate B-complex, C, E-complex, and potassium. I have a big bottle of liquid chelated minerals that's for my boy but sometimes throw a bit of it in my whey drinks.
E/C/A: It works. Don't do it very often though and when I do I leave out the aspirin.
Met-rx: Have never used it but know several very ripped and or big guys who swear by it.
Advocare: Have used some of their products in the past. Seem to work fine. They use a lot of ephedra as stimulant in their products. In my opinion way over priced and no better than cheaper alternatives in the marketplace.
LEMon, I don't have much to add except to agree that whey protein powder is really convenient and tastes good.
Now, more to the non-point: could you PLEASE PLEASE explain how you got to train with Top Team? I'm ready to sacrifice a signficant appendage to follow in your footsteps.
LEMon--monte's posts on EFA/flax are more than I could add.... I would say that many people won't notice anything so dramatic just from adding the supplement, but like monte describes will notice the difference once they stop! The story of his son, though, is really dramatic. I've seen studies referenced which reported similar things,if to a somewhat lesser extent. But there's so much science behind the notion that insufficient EFA's causing degenerative and chronic disease, poor mental functioning, and (very directly for sports performance) prolonged inflammatory responses to training or injury, that adding them makes a lot of sense.
Whether they must be fish oils or whether adding omega-3's from flax and other seeds will be enough is a matter of convenience and individual metabolism. Most people don't have the enzyme problem where they NEED the fish oils, but again they're very efficient... don't need as much for some of the issues (it takes a lot of flax to get converted to 200 mgs of DHA, for example). Oh, by the way, the more total fat in someone's diet, the more essential fat they'll need; It's a percentage issue.
I honestly think steroids are way too complicated an issue for a thread like this--there are so many of them which do different things, and so much to say about monitoring dose/response on an individual basis, let alone legalities, methods of intake, verifying what kinds.... really at least in the U.S. "you need a doctor to supervise" is just about the whole story, in my opinion. This is not an area of expertise of mine, so others may have better things to say. If it happens, I hope it's on another thread. It's a big enough topic to warrant it. I also hope people stick to the science of it rather than "X-bol blowed me up real good, try it!", or political rants pro- or con-, and whatever it is doesn't turn into promotion of something that is, for many of us, after all illegal.