Rourke - I've read most estimations on the internet they make somewhere around $200,000,000 per year, the second place competitor makes around $30,000,000 - yet the UFC offers fighters the same amount that Bellator can pay. Alvarez and every other top fighter should be in the UFC period.Well businesses try and make the most profit possible so....
op is a whiney bitch. without UFC, MMA would still be in carparks.
if a top fighter isn't in the UFC, there'll be a good reason for it..
VadimWhite -Maybe you haven't noticed but it is difficult to disagree on here withoyt someone making it personal. That's the UG way unfortunately more often then not.Standup29 -VadimWhite -No what we know is Alvarez, Lombard and Askren.Standup29 -VadimWhite -Didn't say Alverez did before he fought MC. I said even NOW as champion he does.Standup29 -VadimWhite -So 2 champions don't want to go. Well one former champion anway.Standup29 -Rourke - I guess I have to simplify my post for those of you airheads that didn't understand it.I think with posts like this you should keep to posting 2-3 times per year.
UFC has $$$$ and Bellator has $ = UFC should get any fighter they want.
BUT THEY DON'T! ie - Alvarez.
You newbies do know who Alvarez is and what happened don't you or do I have to explain that too. Half you kids have been on here a few month's and know nothing. Trust your elders I have been following this sport since you've been in diapers, your still wet behind the ears son. Frickin children these day's think they know something! Go get back on mommies tit and come back with an opinion when you get some life experience.
Bellator didn't match the offer unless all cars, meals and women are the same.
And as everyone knows, we don't know what the UFC fighters actually make. And if it was even realistically close, their Champions wouldn't be trying to get to the UFC.
See you next year!
Chandler doesn't want to go anywhere.
Neither does Shlemenko.
Askren wants to, but UFC don't want to pay money for one of the best fighters in their division.
I don't see the statement "their Champions trying to get to the UFC" as some kind of ultimate truth.
BTW, Alvarez wanted to go to the UFC NOT when he was a champion, but when he lost to Chandler.
Lombard left as champion.
Alverez has stated he wants to go even now as champion.
Askren has stated he wants to go to the UFC.
Should I have said many of their Champions? Half?
If any of them have a desire to be considered the best in the world they would have to go to the UFC as that is where majority of the top 10 and pretty much all of the top 5 are. Is that a fair statement to make? It isn't bashing Bellator. I enjoy the fights and have friend who just fought for one of their belts. Facts are facts.
You should've probably said "some".
And that would be - Lombard and Askren.
I've never seen Alvarez mentioning his intentions to go to the UFC before the Chandler loss. Provide the source, please.
So, meanwhile we have 2, from 7 divisions where were more than 1 champion.
Which current Champions have stated they have no wish to fight in the UFC that are at the end of their contracts? Their 2 most dominant champions wanted to fight in the UFC. Their biggest star has stated he wants to fight in the UFC (also a current champion).
Let's see what any of them say when their contracts are up.
Now Alvarez is more like indifferent.
He didn't say that he leaves.
I guess he saw that he can get big money in Bellator, or at least as big as UFC offered him.
Plus Bellator is getting bigger, and he sees it.
As of other current champions - why should I find their claims that they DO NOT WISH to sign with the UFC?
It was YOU who claimed that Bellator champs want to go there, so it's for YOU to prove your claim. I don't need to look for disprove something that you cannot prove :)
For what we KNOW, Lombard and Askren. That's it.
I can't prove what hasn't happened yet. None as far as I know are at the end of their contracts. And I stand by what I said, their Champions are looking to go to the ufc. That much is undeniably true. Granted I should have been clear not all. So some are and 2 of them aee their most dominant. Plus one is their biggest star.
Enjoying the back and forth. Thanks for not making it personal! ;)
Why would I make it personal?
I take it personal only to those, who take it personal to me.
And sorry, but we already found out, that what you claim "indeniably true" is wrong - you cannot say "their champions are looking to go to the UFC", when the evidence says that only 2 champions out of 16 that they had wanted to go there DURING THEIR REIGN.
As we still have to evidence of Alvarez indefinitely wanting to go there in his PREVIOUS reign. Or the CURRENT one.
OP makes a valid point prior to the thread being invaded by UFC shills.
The UFC pays the bare minimum and not a cent more. Behind the scenes bonuses, if they are to be believed bring a fighters pay upto a respectable standard.
When the Fox deal was signed fighters like Cruz and Faber were wheeled out and excited. Even at the time I wondered why they were so happy. They thought it was a brave new dawn and that they would finally get paid, it never happened and until there is a credible promotion for UFC fighters to go it never will.
I bet the cheap fucks didn't even send flowers to the hospital for Rosario.
RampageFitsLikeAGlove -They also get pay bumps with each win. So if they kept going 2-1 they would arguably move to 7k/7k, 8k/8k, 9k, 9k/9k, 10k/10k, 11k. That is just based on moving up 1k per win and assuming they never renegotiate their contract and they are not exciting (exciting fighters typically get better deals. Meaning above the standard increases).pegson123 - No one in the UFC makes 4 grand
Not sure about $4K but I know there are MANY that make $6K to show. Think about that. $6K +$6K. Say they go 2-1 for a few years straight (pretty respectable record and not everyone can go undefeated). That's $30K per year before manager/trainer fees (usually 20%), training expenses, and taxes. These fighters are probably netting $15K- $18K a year, and that's if they're consistently winning 2/3 against the best in the world.
Dana calls the UFC the "Superbowl of MMA." Pay like it then. No fighter that competes for them 3 times per year should be making less than $100K/year.
FIGHTERS NEED TO GET PAID MORE ONLY IF THEY FINISH
BRING IN FINISH BONUSES UFC!!
VadimWhite -They are also not as big of stars in the US as they are in Asia. Bob Sapp also got paid a lot there even after he started his masdive losing streak.RampageFitsLikeAGlove -VadimWhite -bjws - It's called reinvestment. The UFC is expanding globally. Nobody else is doing that.
There is no rule that what is made has to be redistributed to the workers. Look how much cash Apple is sitting on for example.
Besides, UFC is paying their fighters more than the competition.
UFC didn't pay Fernandes more than One FC did, didn't pay Khalidov more than KSW did, didn't pay Alvarez more than Bellator did.
Yeah, right, I'm sure that had they done that, it could've damaged their plans to conquer the world.
BTW, WSOF started to expand globally, and they don't even have their 10 events yet.
Aoki also turned down the UFC's offer because he makes more money elsewhere.
Yep, and Ng.
Rourke - I've read most estimations on the internet they make somewhere around $200,000,000 per year, the second place competitor makes around $30,000,000 - yet the UFC offers fighters the same amount that Bellator can pay. Alvarez and every other top fighter should be in the UFC period.Probably best if you stick your head back up your ass.
VadimWhite -I highly doubt Lombard left to avoid anyone. He left to either challenge the best or make more money.Standup29 -VadimWhite -Maybe you haven't noticed but it is difficult to disagree on here withoyt someone making it personal. That's the UG way unfortunately more often then not.Standup29 -VadimWhite -No what we know is Alvarez, Lombard and Askren.Standup29 -VadimWhite -Didn't say Alverez did before he fought MC. I said even NOW as champion he does.Standup29 -VadimWhite -So 2 champions don't want to go. Well one former champion anway.Standup29 -Rourke - I guess I have to simplify my post for those of you airheads that didn't understand it.I think with posts like this you should keep to posting 2-3 times per year.
UFC has $$$$ and Bellator has $ = UFC should get any fighter they want.
BUT THEY DON'T! ie - Alvarez.
You newbies do know who Alvarez is and what happened don't you or do I have to explain that too. Half you kids have been on here a few month's and know nothing. Trust your elders I have been following this sport since you've been in diapers, your still wet behind the ears son. Frickin children these day's think they know something! Go get back on mommies tit and come back with an opinion when you get some life experience.
Bellator didn't match the offer unless all cars, meals and women are the same.
And as everyone knows, we don't know what the UFC fighters actually make. And if it was even realistically close, their Champions wouldn't be trying to get to the UFC.
See you next year!
Chandler doesn't want to go anywhere.
Neither does Shlemenko.
Askren wants to, but UFC don't want to pay money for one of the best fighters in their division.
I don't see the statement "their Champions trying to get to the UFC" as some kind of ultimate truth.
BTW, Alvarez wanted to go to the UFC NOT when he was a champion, but when he lost to Chandler.
Lombard left as champion.
Alverez has stated he wants to go even now as champion.
Askren has stated he wants to go to the UFC.
Should I have said many of their Champions? Half?
If any of them have a desire to be considered the best in the world they would have to go to the UFC as that is where majority of the top 10 and pretty much all of the top 5 are. Is that a fair statement to make? It isn't bashing Bellator. I enjoy the fights and have friend who just fought for one of their belts. Facts are facts.
You should've probably said "some".
And that would be - Lombard and Askren.
I've never seen Alvarez mentioning his intentions to go to the UFC before the Chandler loss. Provide the source, please.
So, meanwhile we have 2, from 7 divisions where were more than 1 champion.
Which current Champions have stated they have no wish to fight in the UFC that are at the end of their contracts? Their 2 most dominant champions wanted to fight in the UFC. Their biggest star has stated he wants to fight in the UFC (also a current champion).
Let's see what any of them say when their contracts are up.
Now Alvarez is more like indifferent.
He didn't say that he leaves.
I guess he saw that he can get big money in Bellator, or at least as big as UFC offered him.
Plus Bellator is getting bigger, and he sees it.
As of other current champions - why should I find their claims that they DO NOT WISH to sign with the UFC?
It was YOU who claimed that Bellator champs want to go there, so it's for YOU to prove your claim. I don't need to look for disprove something that you cannot prove :)
For what we KNOW, Lombard and Askren. That's it.
I can't prove what hasn't happened yet. None as far as I know are at the end of their contracts. And I stand by what I said, their Champions are looking to go to the ufc. That much is undeniably true. Granted I should have been clear not all. So some are and 2 of them aee their most dominant. Plus one is their biggest star.
Enjoying the back and forth. Thanks for not making it personal! ;)
Why would I make it personal?
I take it personal only to those, who take it personal to me.
And sorry, but we already found out, that what you claim "indeniably true" is wrong - you cannot say "their champions are looking to go to the UFC", when the evidence says that only 2 champions out of 16 that they had wanted to go there DURING THEIR REIGN.
As we still have to evidence of Alvarez indefinitely wanting to go there in his PREVIOUS reign. Or the CURRENT one.
If more than one Champion looks to make the move then my statement stands. I did not say all of them. So far 1 has signed (Lombard ), 1 is in talks (Askren) and 1 is speculated to cone after his next fight if he wins ( Alverez). Those are facts. Two of those are their most dominant champions. I'd say that is reason enough to say their Champions are looking to make the move to the UFC. If it makes it better I can add "some" but then I should also add their "most dominant". Both are true.
Well, technically you're right - even if 2 champions out of 16 wanted to go, that makes the statement "Bellator champions want to go" right, semantically.
Practically it says that only 12.5% of them wanted to go.
As of those champions being more dominant than others - I don't see it as a reason of a desire to leave: mixed martial artists are workers, just like other workers. If they're dominant champions, that means that they're secure on their jobs and it is stable.
They probably wanted to fight some specific fighters - but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't have agreed to better offer from the org that offers it.
BTW, I really think that one of the reasons Lombard wanted to go to the UFC is because he didn't want to fight Shlemenko again, since he saw him improving and possessing more danger to him. And Lombard, technically, is less dominant than Chandler, who gladly signed new Bellator contract - he defended the title only once.
VadimWhite -Regional or not, money talks. We don't know who gets offered what unless they sign or are free agents.Standup29 -VadimWhite -They are also not as big of stars in the US as they are in Asia. Bob Sapp also got paid a lot there even after he started his masdive losing streak.RampageFitsLikeAGlove -VadimWhite -bjws - It's called reinvestment. The UFC is expanding globally. Nobody else is doing that.
There is no rule that what is made has to be redistributed to the workers. Look how much cash Apple is sitting on for example.
Besides, UFC is paying their fighters more than the competition.
UFC didn't pay Fernandes more than One FC did, didn't pay Khalidov more than KSW did, didn't pay Alvarez more than Bellator did.
Yeah, right, I'm sure that had they done that, it could've damaged their plans to conquer the world.
BTW, WSOF started to expand globally, and they don't even have their 10 events yet.
Aoki also turned down the UFC's offer because he makes more money elsewhere.
Yep, and Ng.
If they made more in KSW or One FC why do any of them sign? Could it be they make more than is reported and end up with more money all said and done?
When we don't know all of the facts it's hard to say for sure 1 way or the other. But we can state that Alverez did not think Bellator matchef the UFC offer. He said it himself the monetary value of the contracts were not the same. He believed he would make more fighting for the UFC. That is a fact.
The reason why not everyone goes to KSW or OneFC is simple: those are pretty big orgs, but they're still regional.
While KSW is interested in Khalidov, and One FC is interested in Aoki and Hernandes, they are NOT interested with, let's say, Boetch, Elkins and Mike Easton.
Those guys won't attract their audience.
For UFC it MUST NOT be a factor.
Why? First of all, they claim to take the best fighters in THE WORLD. Secondly, that's the company that tries to EXPAND. They should have all the top international talent, and they definitely have the money to claim them.
However, they don't do it, and that's why there are top MMA fighters that get better contracts in other orgs.
Which is a shame.
BTW, there is a company that DOES try to expand - it's WSOF.
And guess what? Local fighters pay attention.
Take Ryan Ford, for example - he's a #2 Canadian WW, DEFINITELY a UFC material, however, he prefers to sign with WSOF!
And the reason is, as always, financial.
VadimWhite - When Chandler was a dominant champion, with two defenses (which means, one defense more than Lombard had), ranked higher than Lombard in every rating, considered pretty much the best fighter outside th UFC (which Lombard wasn't) he signed 8-fight, multi-year deal with Bellator.Lombard 5-0 in BFC pretty hard to say not dominant.
BTW, most dominant!=the best, you should understand that. Maybe it seems so, because they are dominant, but for what is worth, Chandler is considered greater fighter than Lombard ever was by almost anyone.
So it basically doesn't show anything as a precedent.
VadimWhite -The reason the UFC is the biggest is because they pay what tje market supports. Just because a regional show will offer more than the UFC for a fighter doesn't mean they are woryh it (based on market perception not skill/talent).Standup29 -VadimWhite -Regional or not, money talks. We don't know who gets offered what unless they sign or are free agents.Standup29 -VadimWhite -They are also not as big of stars in the US as they are in Asia. Bob Sapp also got paid a lot there even after he started his masdive losing streak.RampageFitsLikeAGlove -VadimWhite -bjws - It's called reinvestment. The UFC is expanding globally. Nobody else is doing that.
There is no rule that what is made has to be redistributed to the workers. Look how much cash Apple is sitting on for example.
Besides, UFC is paying their fighters more than the competition.
UFC didn't pay Fernandes more than One FC did, didn't pay Khalidov more than KSW did, didn't pay Alvarez more than Bellator did.
Yeah, right, I'm sure that had they done that, it could've damaged their plans to conquer the world.
BTW, WSOF started to expand globally, and they don't even have their 10 events yet.
Aoki also turned down the UFC's offer because he makes more money elsewhere.
Yep, and Ng.
If they made more in KSW or One FC why do any of them sign? Could it be they make more than is reported and end up with more money all said and done?
When we don't know all of the facts it's hard to say for sure 1 way or the other. But we can state that Alverez did not think Bellator matchef the UFC offer. He said it himself the monetary value of the contracts were not the same. He believed he would make more fighting for the UFC. That is a fact.
The reason why not everyone goes to KSW or OneFC is simple: those are pretty big orgs, but they're still regional.
While KSW is interested in Khalidov, and One FC is interested in Aoki and Hernandes, they are NOT interested with, let's say, Boetch, Elkins and Mike Easton.
Those guys won't attract their audience.
For UFC it MUST NOT be a factor.
Why? First of all, they claim to take the best fighters in THE WORLD. Secondly, that's the company that tries to EXPAND. They should have all the top international talent, and they definitely have the money to claim them.
However, they don't do it, and that's why there are top MMA fighters that get better contracts in other orgs.
Which is a shame.
BTW, there is a company that DOES try to expand - it's WSOF.
And guess what? Local fighters pay attention.
Take Ryan Ford, for example - he's a #2 Canadian WW, DEFINITELY a UFC material, however, he prefers to sign with WSOF!
And the reason is, as always, financial.
Ryan Ford signed with WSOF because they offered him more than the UFC thought he was worth, if they even offered him anything (I don't know if they did). The UFC is not short on WW's and currently have every top 10 fighter not named Ben Askren. Not many are asking how Ford would do in the UFC but many are asking how Askren would do.
In that case, it IS important, if it's regional or not - exactly because money talks.
Regional promotions don't need foreign top fighters THAT MUCH.
Non-regional promotions, especially those who claim to have the best fighters, can sign WHOEVER, because they can use them WHEREVER. If they miss them because a REGIONAL promotion offers them more money - it's THEIR fault.
As of Ryan Ford case - it's just Askren case in miniature and went really quiet, that's why people don't talk about this.
I don't know if he was offered UFC contract, but they definitely would've been able to sign him, and he's definitely better than a bunch of guys in the UFC. Let's put it this way: no reason to refuse to take him as a free agent.
Askren case is much worse, of course.
<blockquote>Jumbo Reverse Shrimp - LOL at these excuses about expenses while Floyd is still making more that the entire yearly UFC fighter payroll in one fight. <br /><br />BTW, Rios made 4 million to fight Manny.</blockquote><br /> http://www.therichest.com/sports/the-top-10-highest-paid-boxers-of-all-time/<br /><br />Your wrong... Floyd.. Let me get this stright.. I hate the dude.. He doesnt make outlandish money FIGHTING.. HE IS HIS OWN PROMOTER!!! HE IS HIS OWN UFC.. HE GETS BOXING PPV DOLLARS, HE GETS THE DOOR. HE DOESNT HAVE TO GIVE A CUT TO ANYONE! he has fought 45 fights to make 32 mil as a fighter, I bet most of the UFC top fighers are really getting more then that per fight as a fighter. sorry for screaming, people dont understand that Floyd doesnt make more fighting then most other fighters, hes is a promoter. <br /><br />I hate that he is like GSP.. He is very much a boxer, not a fighter. He is the best at scoring points and playing the game. I just dont like beating a scoring system.
Rourke - The point is the NFL didn't have any players they wanted go sign in the XFL. UFC is the premier mma org. ALL top fighters should be in the UFC.No, but they lost out on over half of their first round draft choices to the AFL in 1960. That was 40 years into their existence. The UFC is half the age the NFL was, and they've had legitimate competition throughout their entire existence. You're comparing apples and fucking rocket ships!
VadimWhite -I'll do no such thing. All the fights are relevant. Lombard fought who they put in front of him just as MC did. A loss would have been bad title defense or not.Standup29 -VadimWhite - When Chandler was a dominant champion, with two defenses (which means, one defense more than Lombard had), ranked higher than Lombard in every rating, considered pretty much the best fighter outside th UFC (which Lombard wasn't) he signed 8-fight, multi-year deal with Bellator.Lombard 5-0 in BFC pretty hard to say not dominant.
BTW, most dominant!=the best, you should understand that. Maybe it seems so, because they are dominant, but for what is worth, Chandler is considered greater fighter than Lombard ever was by almost anyone.
So it basically doesn't show anything as a precedent.
Alvarez also wanted out after that 8 fight deal. So the great Champion he was and is again still wants out. You think he doesn't grasp the difference in income he could make in the UFC? If they realistically could match he would stay and has stated so. Yet still ready to go to the UFC if he wins the trilogy fight.
The potential money in the UFC is far and above anything Bellator or WSOF can offer. That is why 90+% of the best fighters in the world are in the UFC.
Don't count the "superfights", just like I don't count Chandler knocking out Akihiro Gono.
Lombard won the tournament, and then fought Shlemenko.
These are only fights that matter.
Chandler defended the title two times against the tourney winners, and he himself had to both win the tourney and fight for the title.
His reign was more dominant, even though Lombard's was spanned for longer period.
As of what Alvarez wanting now and what he will want after the trilogy - we don't know ANYTHING about it, because he doesn't say ANYTHING after his last fight.
The event was pretty big, even for not-the-PPV, and who knows? Next time it might be PPV as well, he will get his percentage and be happy. It's possible to be satisfied in Bellator as well.
It's known that the potential money in the UFC is far above - but that's the whole matter actually: they are POTENTIAL, they don't use this potential and as a result, don't acquire the best fighters in the world.
That's the whole point and the whole problem.