not to be believed… As if they don’t talk a bunch of bullshit
The problem is, we want people to be effective in a specific way. We think we know what “good” jiu jitsu is, but ultimately, we really don’t…
It’s like the Japanese & Judo. They always tried to make the world play judo like them; upright/ classical Judo, because, to them, that was “proper” Judo. Then other countries (e.g. the Russians) would come to competitions with very different strategies and other non-judo influences --and win. The Japanese would change the rules saying, “Well, that’s not REAL Judo.”
The problem was, the Japanese didn’t really know what “Judo” would look like when the hive mind of the planet was unleashed on it. The immutable laws of Judo proved to be not so immutable; there are always more ways to do things than you think.
BJJ is no different. The traditional Brazilian concept that you NEED a guard with 100 specific sweeps & submissions, ultimately, may not be correct. Gordon Ryan (and many before him) who were not playing jiu jitsu “correctly” in the traditional sense, were so effective they changed the art.
This shows us that when people THINK they know what being skilled & well rounded means, it’s really just an idea they cling to that over time that is invariably proven to be more illusion than Truth, as the art evolves.
Still, in BJJ, being “well rounded” is generally viewed as a sort of proxy for overall skill.
BUT, I don’t need to tell any of you stories of long time "skilled " , “well rounded” practitioners getting their ass handed to them by people who have just a tiny fraction of training time.
BJJ is ultimately about effectiveness and being effective can look different ways. If you can beat everyone with three techniques, you are incredibly skilled and have absolutely no need for more. (i.e. Wallid didn’t need more Guard).
BJJ people like to see people win by being well rounded --because to them that equates to skill-- but it’s not necessarily so.
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Shen is such an excellent and knowledgeable poster it’s not even funny
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Except when he is actually being funny i guess
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Two other considerations in promoting is 1) an individual student’s potential and 2) maturity in the art.
Some students have more potential than others. The super athletic guy who can tap belts above might be skilled or he might be getting away with things through physicality. It is up to an instructor to identify. An unathletic dad who has limited time to train but puts in a ton of effort and time and learning will have a lower total potential than the first student. If the dad trains like this for 5 years and competes and wins one match, is he less deserving of a blue belt than the young kid who trains 2 years and smashes a tournament? Are they to be judged on the same criteria? Things to think about.
Maturity is what I see most lacking in today’s 5-6 year black belts. They have skipped a lot of tough lessons because of their success in competition. Patience is an important part of this art; much greater than any other martial art. I’ve seen black belts competing at the highest level through a temper tantrum because they lost a match, maybe their first loss? Not sure but it struck me as someone who hadn’t learned the humility that comes with time.
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The Japanese Judo example is so true. I have trained with people who have lost to the more brute strength/greco/sambo hybrid judo style that a lot of Europeans use which upsets them because they feel it isn’t really “technical” judo. My response is you may be right but it is “winning” judo.
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Yeah.
Much earlier, even Kano himself, before he died, was was openly disappointed in what the sport of Judo had become. He had an image in his head of what judo “should” be, but when he unleashed his sport on the world, his ideal of what it should be, was out the window.
The analogy to the Gracies is obvious.
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Judo is what judo does
good point and I think there’s another layer to that onion.
Even if you still feel that what you believe is the “good” jiu jitsu, you still need to ensure that you have the ability to deny the match from going in that direction via preventative defense. e.g. I’m not a big fan of a lot of the leg game or berimbolo game. However, I play around with them in order to be competent and understand what needs to be done to prevent a match from taking that path in the first place. I think that this allows you to redefine “good” and “bad” forms of bjj as one that you should focus your expertise and one that you would prefer to deny. However it needs to be done through your bjj itself, not through rules.
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That was pretty much me…I was a blue for too long because I hate pajama grabbling. I could beat all the other blues and purples and won tons of tournaments and ammy MMA fights but never got promoted because I used wrestling/subwrestling technique instead of pure BJJ, especially when forced to my back. Instructors didnt like my kimura heavy approach to sweeps, transitions and submissions. Went to another school and got a purple in less than a month. Then I retired the gi for good and worked on mma. Nowadays, people develop entire BJJ sub systems that focus on the type.of grappling I deployed. I say promote the fucker. Everyone has a unique style and body type that usually further dictates style. Let him bang bro.
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Dude, a good heelhook is going to work in most situations with a single attacker. Pooping a knee is going to end most conflicts. The paint by numbers choreographed uke Helio “self defense” techniques is the trash that doesn’t work. Omg what if someone sneaks up behind me and puts me in a ful Nelson? Omg 
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I would definitely not be interested in having my knee “pooped” ….no sir
My personal opinion is that it’s a combination of things with the heaviest weight given to technical knowledge. Lots of heavyweight wrestlers can tap females and over 40 brown belts with ease. Some of them don’t know dick about jiu jitsu.
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I agree, a guy who is a lot bigger shouldn’t get credit for beating up on smaller guys. These guys usually hurt themselves by relying on their size and usually don’t learn much.
Big guys should at least start on the bottom and work a sweep
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What’s funny is some big guys are like turtles. They are champs when they are crushing guys but they avoid being on their backs. I’ve seen small guys keep them pinned indefinitely
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My standards on promotion are a little high. But to me to go from blue to purple, you should have well rounded knowledge. Even if you have an A game, there shouldn’t be any place where you have no game.
That means real heel hook defense, comfortable escaping side mount, comfortable with someone on your back. Higher belts should know what they’re doing.
Also IMO no one wearing a purple belt should EVER do poorly rolling with the new athletic strong high school or community college wrestler. It reflects poorly on your gym and your art.
I can appreciate that in principle, but what if the guy is 20+ years younger and 40+ lbs heavier AND has a good base? Jiu jitsu can close the gap, but it’s not a superpower, it just seems like one sometimes.
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I understand that, but I would say maybe that person just isn’t going to be a purple belt.
There are a lot of gyms that give out belts just based on showing up and paying dues. But in my opinion part of the value in earning a belt is that it’s hard to do; not everyone can do it.
Not everyone can be a purple belt. Some people will never have the physicality, work ethic, or intelligence. It sucks when some of those people are good friends, or guys you enjoy training with, but those belts mean something.
When a new guy comes in, he judges a school and the art by what he sees the higher belts doing.
So a 315 lb bench press and 400 lb squat Is as important as clean fundamental technique? I disagree. I’m not a black belt, but I have been training for a long time so take my opinion for what it’s worth (some rando on the UG ). Jiu jitsu belts are not the same as a ranking in fighting sports. You can still get a mastery of the art even as you advance in age and your physical attributes begin to fade. The essence of jiu jitsu is self defense. If a 135 lb woman can be finished by being smothered & out muscled by a 250 lb man-gorilla, it doesn’t invalidate her skill or ability. Just like a high level black belt being ko’d in MMA by a kickboxer doesn’t mean they have bad jiu jitsu. Not every jiu jitsu player can be a good fighter, not every good fighter can be good at bjj.
No, not at all. I’m just saying the bar for what’s considered fundamental technique needs to be higher.
I know 140 pound purples who can eat 250 pound dudes alive. But I see a lot of smaller BJJ students, men and women, who say they got rolled up by a big new guy “just because he’s bigger” when really it’s because they should be better.
Obviously if the big guy has been training a while it’s different. But it’s just my opinion that no higher belt should ever get embarrassed by someone who’s not skilled, regardless of the size differential.
As an aside, I personally don’t think BJJ practitioners should even lift until purple belt. You’re not good at Jiu-Jitsu until then. The answer to “why didn’t that work” should never be to do the wrong thing harder and faster. Get good, then do do the right things harder and faster.
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