Raise with these in any position! Does not matter if it is No Limit or limit!
These are Hellmuth's 8 additional starting hands that the more adept poker player can incorporate into their starting hands. These hole cards are not as strong as the intital "Top Ten" hands, but they do have value in loose low limit games or to the more experienced poker player.
I would just like to add to this, this is pretty much for experienced players and that's not a joke either. Phil is a huge advocate of pocket pairs and they can be very good if you're able to read your opponents well and play them well, but for someone who isn't very good at that, they can be horrible money-drainers in the long run.
You got to remember, Phil plays at 4,000/8,000 real life dollar blinds.
Made hands are a winner.
It doesn't really matter too much what limits you play at, to a certain extent, the same logic still applies. Made hands are a winner, sure, but a weak pair such as 22-88 can be counterfeited on a flop of x-J-K for instance, and the key to winning with these hands is knowing when your 44 is good on a flop of x-T-Q or whatever, and when it's beat. If you plan on folding it everytime an overcard flops or everytime you won't make a set, it's a losing deal to call with them in the first place. This is why I am saying his hands are suitable for VERY experienced players that know when to push these hands and when to fold them, based on a good read on their opponent.
Is the "raise from any position" advice for limit or no-limit games?
Raise w/ AQ from any position?
Unless it's suited, that's a total "trouble hand".
And those smaller pairs (9-9, 8-8, and 7-7) can lose value real fast unless you flop a set.
anyone that raises with a 7/7 regardless of position and regardless of who has raised before them is a buffoon and needs to have their money taken.
I agree with the posters who are critical of the "raise in any position" advice. Any global statement like that is bound to have flaws. Hellmuth's game is (1) tournament focused and (2) very dependent on his exceptional ability to read opponents. Blindly following the advice in his book in a table game can get you broke.
I think those hands are good to go all-in with IF you are short-stacked and IF you are playing in a tournament.
In a ring game, you'd probably end up getting slaughtered once people figure out what you're doing and tighten up their playing requirements.
The worst thing that could happen is raising with one of the trouble hands and getting re-raised by some guy. NOW what do you do?!?! Unless you've got a good read on the guy and can figure out whether he's got a decent hand or whether he's trying to put a play on you, you're in the barrel.
It doesn't really matter too much what limits you play at, to a certain extent, the same logic still applies. It matters a great deal.If you are playing micro limits with the entire table just treating the Blinds like antes, of course Pocket Jacks will lose each an every time.But at the 4,000/8,000 table, it is a miracle if they actually see the flop.If you are holding ACE KING, you are still an underdog to even a pair of twos.Heads up, I will take a pocket pair over ACE KING any day as ACE KING is only 33% to make a pair on the flop.Would you want to see if you hit your ace/king for an additional $8,000? Because most pros wont.
"Heads up, I will take a pocket pair over ACE KING any day as ACE KING is only 33% to make a pair on the flop.
Would you want to see if you hit your ace/king for an additional $8,000? Because most pros wont."
Doesn't this depend on how big your stack and how big your opponent's stack is?
Raise w/ AQ from any position? Unless it's suited, that's a total "trouble hand". And those smaller pairs (9-9, 8-8, and 7-7) can lose value real fast unless you flop a set. This is why Phil's book is not widely accepted by the gaming society. His thinking is mostly for ring games.As the other guy said, if you are going to play 9-9 or 7-7 in a limit game, you got to raise them preflop to give the impression that you got something big also.In no limit, with the small pocket pairs, you got to set it or forget it as the pot odds are not in your favor to make a set.As you all will know by now, raising with the TOP 10 hands depends on many factors, way too many to be listed on one thread.Factors such as, NO LIMIT, LIMIT, POSITION, CHIP STACK, LOOSE TABLE/TIGHT TABLE, and so forth.Also, show me any World Poker Tour episode where someone got one of PHIL's TOP TEN HAND and just limped in and it will be a first for me.
Also, I just make this pics and copied the caption for the beginners.
Would you want to see if you hit your ace/king for an additional $8,000? Because most pros wont." Doesn't this depend on how big your stack and how big your opponent's stack is? in a tournament yes!
his rankings dont seem that solid. id sure as hell take a J-10 suited in a full game over a pair of fucking 2's!!!
Not to intentionally insult you too much but aren't you running an informative poker site giving advice to people? With some of these statements I really do wonder... Heads up, I will take a pocket pair over ACE KING any day as ACE KING is only 33% to make a pair on the flop You do know that pocket pairs vs ace king is a virtual coin-toss, right? Ace King also has the advantage of dominating any Ace-x type of hand, while a pocket pair such as 22 will not only be thoroughly dominated vs any higher pair (whereas AK is only a substantial underdog vs AA and KK) and 22 is also a coin-toss vs any two overcards. Also with a statement like that made hands preflop are always the best, I'm wondering how much poker you've really played... a "made" hand preflop will not necessarily be a very strong hand after the flop, as stated in my previous post. If you're holding 7-7 or any of these other "must raise in any position" hands, and you raise, get called and then have someone bet into you on a flop of 3-J-Q, are you going to reraise them or call a bet there and another on fourth and fifth street and pay them off? Playing pocket pairs as aggressively as Phil Hellmuth does is definitely not a move for everyone, he can get away with this because he is so good. He can play these with maximum effectiveness after the flop, a lot of it having to do with the fact that when he raises he'll be a lot more respected than when Joe Schmoe raises with the same hand.
You do know that pocket pairs vs ace king is a virtual coin-tossIt is a virtual coin toss GOING TO A SHOWDOWN!If your ace king doesnt pair up, (only a 33% chance) then what?Chase it?Maybe at the 1/2 table, but at the high stakes table, you got a huge choise to make.First, dont try and insult me by asking IF I KNOW HOW TO PLAY POKER.I just play poker differently then you.Being the "so called self proclaimed" expert as yourself, you do know there are numerous amount of methods to play poker right?Are you going to question The "Devil Fish" for preflop raising preflop raising with a 3-5 off suit and betting out when a J-10-7 hits the board?By your methods of playing poker, it seems like you play a lot of low stakes online poker. These hands do not translate well to those.Too many people not playing sound poker, seeing the flop too many times and creating a lot of suck outs.There guys like Sammy Farah who only play suited connectors in NL Tournaments. You gonna question his playing as well?
Also, show me any World Poker Tour episode where someone got one of PHIL's TOP TEN HAND and just limped in and it will be a first for me.
World Poker Tour, Foxwoods:
One of the key hands in the tournament, Howard Lederer makes a very small raise with KJ and Layne Flack just calls him with AA, only to be beaten out when Howard flops two pair.
World Poker Tour, Tunica:
Devilfish vs Jeremy Tinsley, Devilfish makes a small raise with a pair of sixes and Jeremy just limps in and calls him with a "Phil Hellmuth must raise hand" of 77.
Jeremy again, this time being dealt A-Q and limps in UTG with this "must-raise" hand, to see a four-way flop.
World Poker Tour, Lucky Chances/Gold Rush
Antonio Esfandiari calling instead of raising with the must-raise hand 77 when his opponent Chris Bigler held JT.
There's so many more examples but my only point with this entire post is basically just telling you how off you are on so many notes. You also stated; "His thinking is mostly for ring games." which is another statement I'd disagree with. I can completely understand coming over the top all-in, in a tournament and hoping to win one of those lucky coin-flips or getting some blinds and antes with any type of pair, whereas in a ring game even with the blinds of $4k-$8k as you stated, I'd be very puzzled to see that everyone would raise with 77 or 88 after someone had bet out. That cannot be anything but a losing move in the long run unless you are very very good at reading your opponents, just in my opinion.