Tree of Liberty located in Ferguson, MO

And I think its awesome. The (varying degrees of) victory of the ideals espoused in the American Revolution, Civil War, Civil Rights Movement, etc. were all achieved not by holding hands and singing Kumbaya, but by civil disobedience and the eruption of violence. In this instance, both the martyrs and the tyrants are serving their functions. When Ferguson is done bleeding, a better version of society will emerge, however localized, temporary and fragile it may be. And if the rotten corpse that is left of that all-too-American town is unable to regenerate itself, then so be it and good riddance. Sure their are some individual tragedies, but we all die.

It's going to become a barren wasteland like north and east St. Louis.

I can hear the property value drop from where I live....sounds like a bomb fleeing the Enola Gay Phone Post 3.0

Let me see if I can sum up MOTPH and RR responses, a sentiment I anticipate will mirror other conservatives' tactic of rebuttal…

(Holding a broad brush, making wide strokes) They're ALL CROOKS, just like everyone in every social program is stealing! Let's assume that they're all the worst elements of society, dehumanize everyone involved, trivialize their legitimate complaints, and do everything we can to maintain the status quo! Nothing to see here people, move along!!

I didn't say it was a revolution. Its essentially anarchy. And I'm ok with that. Its a beautiful thing. Its the eruption of frustration borne of racism and/or oppressive socioeconomic circumstances systematically perpetuated on a disenfranchised class by people who will kill in order to maintain the status quo. And gas and beat journalists who try to expose them. I don't care who's color is what. Sure, some people are stealing shit. Good for them. And none of the merchants that wanted to sell tea without sending taxes back to Britian had ulterior economic motives. Shit doesn't get fixed until it gets extremely broken. Power only owes itself its own perpetuation. So the people of Ferguson are throwing their tea overboard, overturning the tables of the money changers, tossing their salads. Call it what you will. I call it good shit.

Ruby Rhod - 


"racism and/or oppressive socioeconomic circumstances systematically perpetuated on a disenfranchised class by people who will kill in order to maintain the status quo".  Garbage and you know it.  Success is elusive to everyone that trys to capture it.  Hurdles can be overcome, or excuses can be made.  everyone has a choice.


Easy for us to say. We made it. Many don't and never stood a chance. I've seen it from the ground floor. Go to the inner city and engage with kids who will never succeed because they can barely speak intelligible English because their schools are a total joke because those schools are funded by property taxes on $200 a month ghetto death traps. Generational poverty and social marginalization that only gets worse over time, not better. And the kids literally don't know any better because they've literally never seen or heard it.

Its a different world that you can't know unless you've been there. The little old lady from the suburbs knows that cops are there to protect and serve. The black kid from Compton lives a different reality. Just google Rampart Scandal. But the little old lady can stand in judgement of those kids based on her experience?! That's a joke.

Your "garbage" and "everyone has a choice" comments are the clarion call of people who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Or of people who obtusely believe that they understand all sides of incredibly complex and long-running social issues. Get a grip homie, and at least admit that there JUST MIGHT be things in this world you don't know, haven't experienced and perhaps don't understand.

Ruby Rhod - 


By your logic, there wouldn't be any black millionaires.  no high paid athletes, entreprenuers, etc.  it's essentially the same arguement as feminism.  there is an imaginary element holding you back. but no one and nothing is holding anyone back but themselves


Ah, the classic "if Tiger Woods can make it, anyone can." The aberration as the example to nullify the struggles of an entire people. The American Dream. The Dream that keeps everyone in check. Its a good one. And its usually enough. Its just not enough now, in Ferguson.

This is where I do not agree with the Blac Bloc and revolutionary left. As soon as the more overt forms of lawlessness occur, the masses immediately side with the police and the state. You can watch the initial interest and sympathy of the public at the beginning of these protests, then when images of damaging property come out, the public turns.

The modern leftie revolutionary is too busy shooting himself in the foot to get anything done. I've read all the fucking arguments for this behavior in the infoshops, but I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't written by people on private intelligence firm payrolls to screw up your movement. Because it makes no sense.

OneScoup - This is where I do not agree with the Blac Bloc and revolutionary left. As soon as the more overt forms of lawlessness occur, the masses immediately side with the police and the state. You can watch the initial interest and sympathy of the public at the beginning of these protests, then when images of damaging property come out, the public turns.

The modern leftie revolutionary is too busy shooting himself in the foot to get anything done. I've read all the fucking arguments for this behavior in the infoshops, but I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't written by people on private intelligence firm payrolls to screw up your movement. Because it makes no sense.

This isn't a revolutionary leftist movement. You're attributing to this situation complexities it doesn't have (not necessary given that it has plenty of its own.) That said, of course people will try to hijack it, but that's just them trying to hop on top of a moving wave. This is just people getting fed up and exploding. Hopefully it will serve a larger role, but it has no unifying philosophical tenet, greater social objective, or coherent goal. Its just anarchy manifest. Judge it for what it is, not what it could be or what you want it to be.

fuck using left wing hippy bullshit to justify criminals looting and burning stores.

Rubiconrex - 
OneScoup - This is where I do not agree with the Blac Bloc and revolutionary left. As soon as the more overt forms of lawlessness occur, the masses immediately side with the police and the state. You can watch the initial interest and sympathy of the public at the beginning of these protests, then when images of damaging property come out, the public turns.

The modern leftie revolutionary is too busy shooting himself in the foot to get anything done. I've read all the fucking arguments for this behavior in the infoshops, but I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't written by people on private intelligence firm payrolls to screw up your movement. Because it makes no sense.

This isn't a revolutionary leftist movement. You're attributing to this situation complexities it doesn't have (not necessary given that it has plenty of its own.) That said, of course people will try to hijack it, but that's just them trying to hop on top of a moving wave. This is just people getting fed up and exploding. Hopefully it will serve a larger role, but it has no unifying philosophical tenet, greater social objective, or coherent goal. Its just anarchy manifest. Judge it for what it is, not what it could be or what you want it to be.

I bring up the left because you only seem to see this form of protest from the left. Look at the Tea Party, which surely was full of angry gun toting nuts, but despite mass protests I never heard of a single crime committed or saw a video of such activity. They were more tightly organized and effective at impacting elections, even though the Koch bros might have too much of an influence there.

In any case it seems like the left has lost it's once formidable rep for bringing about change, which is a shame.

jason73 - fuck using left wing hippy bullshit to justify criminals looting and burning stores.

The effect this whole thing had on Jason73 is a good example of why this form of protest doesn't work. Will Jason73 now be curious to read or hear about potentially real grievances behind the protests? Prolly not.

yeah, fuck 'em!

Work hard, you'll succeed!

Brilliant insight.

I never said anyone could succeed without working hard. But plenty of people work hard and don't succeed. None of that is the point of what is happening in Ferguson. Its not the point of this thread. Power is beating, gassing, and shooting its way into perpetuation in Ferguson. Power (concentrated in a particular race in Ferguson) has jealously guarded its perch for a very long time. And the pot has boiled over because the cook overplayed his hand. Save your Tony Robbins speech for people dumb enough to pay $19.95 for it. Go read a book.

Sadly there are lots of peaceful protesters who may have actual greivences. But they are being ignored by the media and their message lost all because a bunch of violent idiots causing destruction and looting. This is the sad part. You can't bring about change when your message is lost because of morons.

OneScoup - 
Rubiconrex - 
OneScoup - This is where I do not agree with the Blac Bloc and revolutionary left. As soon as the more overt forms of lawlessness occur, the masses immediately side with the police and the state. You can watch the initial interest and sympathy of the public at the beginning of these protests, then when images of damaging property come out, the public turns.

The modern leftie revolutionary is too busy shooting himself in the foot to get anything done. I've read all the fucking arguments for this behavior in the infoshops, but I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't written by people on private intelligence firm payrolls to screw up your movement. Because it makes no sense.

This isn't a revolutionary leftist movement. You're attributing to this situation complexities it doesn't have (not necessary given that it has plenty of its own.) That said, of course people will try to hijack it, but that's just them trying to hop on top of a moving wave. This is just people getting fed up and exploding. Hopefully it will serve a larger role, but it has no unifying philosophical tenet, greater social objective, or coherent goal. Its just anarchy manifest. Judge it for what it is, not what it could be or what you want it to be.

I bring up the left because you only seem to see this form of protest from the left. Look at the Tea Party, which surely was full of angry gun toting nuts, but despite mass protests I never heard of a single crime committed or saw a video of such activity. They were more tightly organized and effective at impacting elections, even though the Koch bros might have too much of an influence there.

In any case it seems like the left has lost it's once formidable rep for bringing about change, which is a shame.

The Tea Party is a fascinating phenomenon, no doubt about it. And yes, it was a well-organized response by the enfranchised reacting to a perceived threat to the status quo by the disenfranchised. Its not analogous for a lot of reasons. Definitely not spontaneous and definitely orchestrated by the system. But on its face and to most people (and especially those who have a vested interest in maintaining that illusion) it will be viewed as comparable and thus a basis by which to condemn the poor and the left. You're right about that for sure. But no one with any sort of education or perspective will conflate the 2.

ManOfThePeepHole - 

Perfect first response.

OneScoup - 
jason73 - fuck using left wing hippy bullshit to justify criminals looting and burning stores.

The effect this whole thing had on Jason73 is a good example of why this form of protest doesn't work. Will Jason73 now be curious to read or hear about potentially real grievances behind the protests? Prolly not.

if they were peacefully protesting a worthy cause i would be sympathetic. a criminal grabbed a cops gun and got shot.why should i give a fuck?if they were just protesting in the street more power to them but as soon as it becomes a nightly riot and people are coming to loot it loses the title of a protest.

jason73 - 
OneScoup - 
jason73 - fuck using left wing hippy bullshit to justify criminals looting and burning stores.

The effect this whole thing had on Jason73 is a good example of why this form of protest doesn't work. Will Jason73 now be curious to read or hear about potentially real grievances behind the protests? Prolly not.

if they were peacefully protesting a worthy cause i would be sympathetic. a criminal grabbed a cops gun and got shot.why should i give a fuck?if they were just protesting in the street more power to them but as soon as it becomes a nightly riot and people are coming to loot it loses the title of a protest.

And that's all fine. It doesn't have to mean anything to anyone except to the people of Ferguson. No one there gives a fuck what I or Jason73 have to say. But power in Ferguson is listening. And the others are being heard. Power will adjust fire and find a way to placate the masses. The pendulum will swing, ever so slightly, to a place that both parties can/will maintain. If power does it right, it will last awhile, if they don't, it will get ugly again quickly.

Lefties will attempt to hijack for a larger (nefarious? beneficial? altruistic? counterproductive?) purpose and Righties will use it to justify their (elitism/racism/fascism…) chosen, largely uneducated, uniformed and generally ignorant preconceived notions.

If we're lucky, we'll benefit from some improvement in the system. If we're not, it will just be another venting that costs some lives and property.

It's not often we get articulate retards here on the OG, but you're appreciated.

Whether on the Left or Right, one should be able to comprehend that Political Correctness is a heinous construct that prevents people from having an honest conversation and discussing true issues and their roots, thereby precluding the resolution of complex issues. Conservatives love that shit. And its true.

But when it comes to race and socioeconomic issues in the US, that's off the table. You and 5 of your friends play Monopoly. Give 2 of you all the money and all the property and see how long the other 4 last. They won't get around the board twice. Why? Because they're lazy, stupid, entitled, sub-human, dirty, etc etc.

The conditions were set long ago and they've been systemically perpetuated. Conservatives/whites/successful people can't admit that because that undermines the illusion of their own superiority.

None of that nullifies anyone's particular success or failures, hard work, personal responsibility, etc. Its just the beginning of a difficult conversation. If we can't have that conversation, then we can't fix what's happening in Ferguson, MO. Or anywhere else that this will happen. And it will continue to happen. Not because there are legitimate issues at play that people want resolved and eventually explode in frustration, but because blacks and poor people are animals. Amiright guys?!