“Your video is filled with people being choked through their jaws and/or NOT escaping.”… Yes. It’s a terrible position to be in. Odds are that you’re still getting finished.
My statement is that tucking your chin buys you a few extra moments to work on some escapes and give you a chance.
You said in your experience you had never seen a black belt escape another black belt in that way… I was pointing out Gunnar Nelson’s escape of Maia… and that was in a highlight video where you generally see finishes.
My analogy is that you seek shelter and protection, but you know you need to get out of there. When you identify an opportunity, you often take some additional risk.
Like I said before…your statement that “there are no absolutes in bjj” is dead on. So my opinion is that yes GENERALLY SPEAKING you should initially tuck your chin to buy yourself some time. I would not be contradicting myself to say that there may be some situations where you would start to extend your chin up…eg if you could drive to the north so that your opponents face was on your back and his elbows were getting flared, he would completely lose leverage. This is analogous to the guillotine escape where you eventually extend your head to drive your opponent’s elbow above their shoulder.
I won’t tuck my chin to defend anything. I won’t sacrifice my posture for a single second of temporary “defense.” There is no strong hand fight without posture.
You can feel secure knowing that most people are going to agree with you. My opinion is unpopular; I know that.
I won’t tuck my chin to defend anything. I won’t sacrifice my posture for a single second of temporary “defense.” There is no strong hand fight without posture.
You can feel secure knowing that most people are going to agree with you. My opinion is unpopular; I know that.
It’s been a good discussion of differences of opinion, but your last comment was a little on the insulting side… I won’t take offense because you’re generally a solid contributor to this forum as well as in this thread. I don’t really give a shit how popular an opinion is…
If you’re on the mma forum here, you’ll notice that I spent about 37 pages being attacked and personally threatened by racists taking a stand against white supremacy within mma. I don’t take security in popular or safe opinions and I was the first comment in this thread without waiting for others to offer support first. It’s what I do in my bjj game.
you don’t tuck your chin in any turtle position either? Seems like you’re taking a pretty absolutist stance for something that doesn’t have absolutes.
i think tucking your chin, raising your shoulders, and blocking with the back of the hands against the face is the best way to prepare for the arm to come across. It makes it so there is a much smaller area that is effective for the opponent which means less space to protect and an easier "catch and control" of their hand or wrist. This lets you still choose which escape will work best between scooting low towards the hooks(keeping the chin tucked tho whole time) or getting control of a underhooked arm and driving the back to the ground, but leading with the back of the head with the neck wide open. If you just drive the head back without control of the arms first it can allow them to move to other techniques or positions and also gives up the chance at the much easier counter of scooting down.
I won’t tuck my chin to defend anything. I won’t sacrifice my posture for a single second of temporary “defense.” There is no strong hand fight without posture.
You can feel secure knowing that most people are going to agree with you. My opinion is unpopular; I know that.
It’s been a good discussion of differences of opinion, but your last comment was a little on the insulting side… I won’t take offense because you’re generally a solid contributor to this forum as well as in this thread. I don’t really give a shit how popular an opinion is…
If you’re on the mma forum here, you’ll notice that I spent about 37 pages being attacked and personally threatened by racists taking a stand against white supremacy within mma. I don’t take security in popular or safe opinions and I was the first comment in this thread without waiting for others to offer support first. It’s what I do in my bjj game.
you don’t tuck your chin in any turtle position either? Seems like you’re taking a pretty absolutist stance for something that doesn’t have absolutes.
No insult intended! I respect you and your opinions a lot. It’s that your opinion here is a pretty established piece of advice in BJJ. It hardly needs explaining on your part. Almost everyone will tell you it’s sound advice. 5 years ago, I would have been teaching it that way. I was taught that way.
Absolutes are weird. But I believe, as a tenant of my art, that my posture is way more important than any given technical consideration. Literally, as my practice of BJJ, I would never choose to give my opponent contact with my jaw instead of contact with my neck.
I may shoot a video attempting to explain this viewpoint in the near future.
I won’t tuck my chin to defend anything. I won’t sacrifice my posture for a single second of temporary “defense.” There is no strong hand fight without posture.
You can feel secure knowing that most people are going to agree with you. My opinion is unpopular; I know that.
It’s been a good discussion of differences of opinion, but your last comment was a little on the insulting side… I won’t take offense because you’re generally a solid contributor to this forum as well as in this thread. I don’t really give a shit how popular an opinion is…
If you’re on the mma forum here, you’ll notice that I spent about 37 pages being attacked and personally threatened by racists taking a stand against white supremacy within mma. I don’t take security in popular or safe opinions and I was the first comment in this thread without waiting for others to offer support first. It’s what I do in my bjj game.
you don’t tuck your chin in any turtle position either? Seems like you’re taking a pretty absolutist stance for something that doesn’t have absolutes.
No insult intended! I respect you and your opinions a lot. It’s that your opinion here is a pretty established piece of advice in BJJ. It hardly needs explaining on your part. Almost everyone will tell you it’s sound advice. 5 years ago, I would have been teaching it that way. I was taught that way.
Absolutes are weird. But I believe, as a tenant of my art, that my posture is way more important than any given technical consideration. Literally, as my practice of BJJ, I would never choose to give my opponent contact with my jaw instead of contact with my neck.
I may shoot a video attempting to explain this viewpoint in the near future.
cool… yeah I was probably a little too sensitive about it at the time… I was involved in a lot of political discussion just beforehand which tends to get pretty ugly, so my hackles are up a bit. Sorry… and pretty flattering to hear that you think my opinion carries any particular weight here. It feels like only yesterday that any time I posted a vid or something, it was immediately countered by the trump card “yeah but marcelo garcia…” lol.
meatgrinder and setree are solid contributors to this BJJ forum! no bad feelings anywhere here i'm sure :)
None here for certain. I know that I have some significantly different view points than either of you guys, and most people, but I sincerely appreciate the obviously careful consideration that either of you put into your opinions. I’d love to train with either of you any time.
really?? Crazy coincidence! My buddy runs a crossfit place there, but has trained BJJ since forever and is adding classes to his gym. I'm hopefully gonna visit for their anniversary in june
I won’t tuck my chin to defend anything. I won’t sacrifice my posture for a single second of temporary “defense.” There is no strong hand fight without posture.
You can feel secure knowing that most people are going to agree with you. My opinion is unpopular; I know that.
OKay, buddy
COrrect, Your opinion is unpopular. I agree with not having absolutes in BJJ but but you seem to be convinced it's absolutely correct. What validates your findings and makes you so convinced that you know the "real" way to defend?
Meatgrinder has faced Miyaos in competition, some of the best back attackers in BJJ and has managed to survive longer due to tucking his chin. that wasn't his only defence, but tucking his chance bought him more time than he would've had opposed to if he hadn't tucked his chin.
He has also posted footage of Gunnar Nelson buyng more time with a chin tuck to defend himself (of course in combination with other defenses)
I agree tucking the chin isn't a good defense but I'd also say its wrong to not tuck your chin. I have great back defense that I've used in high level brown and black belt competition and in MMA fights against very good back attackers and I've tucked my chin in combination to doing other defenses so for you declare with absolute certainty that tucking the chin is wrong, I say your opinion has been proven wrong with much evidence.
Why do you think it bought gunner more time? What evidence is there that Gunner didn’t escape despite his initial chin tucking defense, instead of your assumption that it was because of it? After all, that video is filled with people who achieved the opposite result.
I’ve been wrong about BJJ more than I’ve been right. I continue to change my mind every day. I’m not sure why any of this should offend you. I used to agree with you. Now I disagree with you. Given time and evidence, we could agree again.
Why do you think it bought gunner more time? What evidence is there that Gunner didn’t escape despite his initial chin tucking defense, instead of your assumption that it was because of it? After all, that video is filled with people who achieved the opposite result.
I’ve been wrong about BJJ more than I’ve been right. I continue to change my mind every day. I’m not sure why any of this should offend you. I used to agree with you. Now I disagree with you. Given time and evidence, we could agree again.
You said that you had never seen such a thing…so I presented that to you.
You are of this persuasion that Drysdale is actually contradicting himself, rather than you misunderstanding what he’s trying to demonstrate
No you are contending that despite that actual evidence that Gunner tucked his chin and successfully escaped (without even breaking his jaw), that he escaped despite doing that?
…like I said when I apologized. I was getting pretty hot under the collar from a political discussion and I shouldn’t have been offended by what you wrote.
Kind of funny actually… I just finished saying in the political discussion that “intellectual leadership requires saying what you believe even when it’s unpopular and you’ll face criticism for it”… Write before your comment: “You can feel secure knowing that most people are going to agree with you”. So in the context of what I had just written, I was offended.
Anyways, if we did ever get a chance to train together, it would be my pleasure. I’m in the boston area if you or Dave are ever around. Wish I got to travel a bit more to meet others.
Why do you think it bought gunner more time? What evidence is there that Gunner didn’t escape despite his initial chin tucking defense, instead of your assumption that it was because of it? After all, that video is filled with people who achieved the opposite result.
I’ve been wrong about BJJ more than I’ve been right. I continue to change my mind every day. I’m not sure why any of this should offend you. I used to agree with you. Now I disagree with you. Given time and evidence, we could agree again.
You said that you had never seen such a thing…so I presented that to you.
You are of this persuasion that Drysdale is actually contradicting himself, rather than you misunderstanding what he’s trying to demonstrate
No you are contending that despite that actual evidence that Gunner tucked his chin and successfully escaped (without even breaking his jaw), that he escaped despite doing that?
…like I said when I apologized. I was getting pretty hot under the collar from a political discussion and I shouldn’t have been offended by what you wrote.
Kind of funny actually… I just finished saying in the political discussion that “intellectual leadership requires saying what you believe even when it’s unpopular and you’ll face criticism for it”… Write before your comment: “You can feel secure knowing that most people are going to agree with you”. So in the context of what I had just written, I was offended.
Anyways, if we did ever get a chance to train together, it would be my pleasure. I’m in the boston area if you or Dave are ever around. Wish I got to travel a bit more to meet others.
These discussions would be so much easier on the mats. Thanks for the thoughts!
really?? Crazy coincidence! My buddy runs a crossfit place there, but has trained BJJ since forever and is adding classes to his gym. I'm hopefully gonna visit for their anniversary in june
Def stop by…
10 Dedham st.
Newton, MA
What’s his name? Has he been training in the boston area forever? If so, I’d prob know him.
I know someone who opens crossfit gyms. hell of a college wrestler. but he’s only a blue belt…Ask him if he knows the meatgriner
Why do you think it bought gunner more time? What evidence is there that Gunner didn’t escape despite his initial chin tucking defense, instead of your assumption that it was because of it? After all, that video is filled with people who achieved the opposite result.
I’ve been wrong about BJJ more than I’ve been right. I continue to change my mind every day. I’m not sure why any of this should offend you. I used to agree with you. Now I disagree with you. Given time and evidence, we could agree again.
You said that you had never seen such a thing…so I presented that to you.
You are of this persuasion that Drysdale is actually contradicting himself, rather than you misunderstanding what he’s trying to demonstrate
No you are contending that despite that actual evidence that Gunner tucked his chin and successfully escaped (without even breaking his jaw), that he escaped despite doing that?
…like I said when I apologized. I was getting pretty hot under the collar from a political discussion and I shouldn’t have been offended by what you wrote.
Kind of funny actually… I just finished saying in the political discussion that “intellectual leadership requires saying what you believe even when it’s unpopular and you’ll face criticism for it”… Write before your comment: “You can feel secure knowing that most people are going to agree with you”. So in the context of what I had just written, I was offended.
Anyways, if we did ever get a chance to train together, it would be my pleasure. I’m in the boston area if you or Dave are ever around. Wish I got to travel a bit more to meet others.
PS. I remember you showing an ups a while back. I have reason to be interested in your version. Could you link me to any videos you have of it?
