I thought the best way to prove that Fedor is the greatest of all time is by comparing his championship reign against the current UFC title holders:
Brock Lesnar: UFC Heavyweight Champion
Reign as champion: 21 months
Title defences: 2
Two fights in the UFC before a title shot
First three opponents after winning the belt: Frank Mir, Shane Carwin, TBA
Last title defence opponent: Frank Mir
George St Pierre: UFC Welterweight Champion
Reign as champion: 30 months
Title defences: 4
Two fights in the UFC before a title shot
First three opponents after winning the belt: Matt Serra, Jon Fitch, BJ Penn
Last title defence opponent: Dan Hardy
Anderson Silva: UFC Middleweight Champion
Reign as champion: 44 months
Title defences: 6
One fight in the UFC before a title shot
First three opponents after winning the belt: Travis Lutter, Nate Marquardt, Rich Franklin
Last title defence opponent: Demian Maia
Fedor Emelianenko: Pride Heavyweight Champion
Reign as champion: 43 months
Title defences: 3
Two fights in Pride before a title shot
First three opponents after winning the belt: Egidijus Valavicius, Kazuyuki Fujita, Gary Goodridge
Last title defence opponent: Mark Hunt
Now some might claim that if Fedor had to consistently fight top competition all the time he would had to have had at least 1-2 losses by now. I say that's a load of bollocks, and it's completely unprofessional to spout that nonsense. Take that shit to the UFC.
Nogueira's last 8 opponents have been Cain Velasquez, Randy Couture, Frank Mir, Tim Sylvia, Heath Herring, Josh Barnett(x2) and Fabricio Werdum.
Fedor's last 8 opponents have been Brett Rogers, Andrei Arlovski, Tiym Sylvia, Hong-Man Choi, Matt Lindland, Mark Hunt, Mark Coleman and the mighty Zuluzinho.
Nogueira has losses on his record, and should have stopped fighting back in 2006/07, but as an MMA fan I have to rank him as the greatest heavyweight of all time.
He may not have held the title after Fedor took it from him, but he did the job that the title-holder was meant to do in cleaning out the heavyweight division while Fedor rested on his laurels and dined on fighters such as Egidjus Valavacius and Zuluzinho.
Sastan - Nogueira's last 8 opponents have been Cain Velasquez, Randy Couture, Frank Mir, Tim Sylvia, Heath Herring, Josh Barnett(x2) and Fabricio Werdum.
Fedor's last 8 opponents have been Brett Rogers, Andrei Arlovski, Tiym Sylvia, Hong-Man Choi, Matt Lindland, Mark Hunt, Mark Coleman and the mighty Zuluzinho.
Nogueira has losses on his record, and should have stopped fighting back in 2006/07, but as an MMA fan I have to rank him as the greatest heavyweight of all time.
He may not have held the title after Fedor took it from him, but he did the job that the title-holder was meant to do in cleaning out the heavyweight division while Fedor rested on his laurels and dined on fighters such as Egidjus Valavacius and Zuluzinho.
whuts that!
hmmmmm according to those stats Anderson is the goat
Do you even know what "undisputed" means? LOL.
I dispute your proof. It is now no longer disputed.
bhamill - Do you even know what "undisputed" means? LOL.
I dispute your proof. It is now no longer disputed.
If I were to make a new thread with the same information, I would have to title it 'Disputed proof'. However, at the time of posting my evidence was undisputed.
Rashad's Official Nipple Tweaker - hmmmmm according to those stats Anderson is the goat
I guess we should then discard facts, stats and reason when making the case for Fedor as GOAT, it's the only way this would make sense.
Peoria Athletic Club - does anyone lese find this thread completely retarded?
and please tell me english is your second language.
English is my second language.
He's not the Goat because he doesnt fight the best that simple...
'Of All Time' is a strong statement to make.
I agree with another thread, he was the Greatest of His Era, which ended when BROCKLESNAR entered MMA. He will be looked at like Chuck Liddell and Matt Hughes, the greatest of their era, but when the sport exploded it passed them by.
obsessis - 'Of All Time' is a strong statement to make.
I agree with another thread, he was the Greatest of His Era, which ended when BROCKLESNAR entered MMA. He will be looked at like Chuck Liddell and Matt Hughes, the greatest of their era, but when the sport exploded it passed them by.
Protip:
Of all time does not mean being the best in every era. By that logic Ali is one of the worst boxers of all time, because he can´t fight anyone anymore due to his condition.
It means being the most dominant well decorated fighter. Are you saying Brock should be considered the GOAT with a 5-1 record (having fought only one top heavyweight still in his prime, losing once), over Fedor with 34-1 (effectively 34-0), having taken on all the greats of his era?
The thread title said GOAT not who can beat who at this point in time. It's hard I know, but we're here for you ;)
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Sastan -bhamill - Do you even know what "undisputed" means? LOL.
I dispute your proof. It is now no longer disputed.
If I were to make a new thread with the same information, I would have to title it 'Disputed proof'. However, at the time of posting my evidence was undisputed.
You are not the first to bring up these points... People were arguing this long before you came up with the thread, therefore was already disputed... But I was just busting balls. You are entitled to your opinion of course.
FastwalkerIt means being the most dominant well decorated fighter. Are you saying Brock should be considered the GOAT with a 5-1 record (having fought only one top heavyweight still in his prime, losing once), over Fedor with 34-1 (effectively 34-0), having taken on all the greats of his era?
How did Fedor take on all the greats of his era? Just look at his reign as Pride champion, he only fought 2 top 10 heavyweights in almost 4 years! 3 if you include Mark Hunt (who I've never ranked top 10 myself).
Anderson Silva in roughly the same time span fought not only 6 title defences against top 10 opponents, but went out and sought fighters in higher weight classes to challenge himself (as opposed to Fedor who actually finds a Middleweight to fight).
How can Fedor be considered the GOAT when he has NEVER fought all the greats of his era, whether it be during his Pride reign or afterwards?
The point of the stats was to show how Fedor barely fought anyone after winning the belt. For chrissakes, his first three opponents as Pride champion included Valavicius(who?) and Gary Goodridge!
Sastan -FastwalkerIt means being the most dominant well decorated fighter. Are you saying Brock should be considered the GOAT with a 5-1 record (having fought only one top heavyweight still in his prime, losing once), over Fedor with 34-1 (effectively 34-0), having taken on all the greats of his era?
How did Fedor take on all the greats of his era? Just look at his reign as Pride champion, he only fought 2 top 10 heavyweights in almost 4 years! 3 if you include Mark Hunt (who I've never ranked top 10 myself).
Anderson Silva in roughly the same time span fought not only 6 title defences against top 10 opponents, but went out and sought fighters in higher weight classes to challenge himself (as opposed to Fedor who actually finds a Middleweight to fight).
How can Fedor be considered the GOAT when he has NEVER fought all the greats of his era, whether it be during his Pride reign or afterwards?
The point of the stats was to show how Fedor barely fought anyone after winning the belt. For chrissakes, his first three opponents as Pride champion included Valavicius(who?) and Gary Goodridge!
Fedor consistently fights opponents above his weight as well. Also, I never claimed Fedor never fought a can, or sticks out miles above the fighters you name.
However, Fedor did fight the greats of his time, many opponents who according to critics at the time he had little chance against. No one can beat Nog, Nog will win the rematch, Mirko is too strong standing, Fedor can't beat a good wrestler like Coleman, ad nauseam.
Though hardly the most prestigious wins, you can't say beating Semmy Schilt, Mark Hunt, etc., is nothing. Even after Pride he still fought top 10 opponents. And yes, those include Sylvia and AA. They were top 10 in all major rankings. Though these are of course not his crowning achievements.
Contrast that to a guy like A. Silva. He fought a great deal of cans in the beginning of his career, which is not so odd if it were not that he lost to TWO of them. Who were the true definition of can I might add. Very inconsistent fighter until his UFC run.
He has been on a roll lately though and may indeed one day be the GOAT, who knows. But I cannot see how you could possibly deny that Fedor is at this point not the GOAT. He has more fights, more wins, no losses (let alone losses to cans). On top of all that, Anderson never had a Fedor - Cro Cop or Fedor - Nog. If you cannot see this, you were probably not around when Fedor fought Nog the first time. Many people do not realize how good and highly regarded he was back then.
Anderson's wins over Hendo and Franklin are admirable, but not even close. That being said I do not profess to have any authority over this matter and respect your opinion, I'm merely stating mine.
fiercedragon -Fastwalker -Sastan -FastwalkerIt means being the most dominant well decorated fighter. Are you saying Brock should be considered the GOAT with a 5-1 record (having fought only one top heavyweight still in his prime, losing once), over Fedor with 34-1 (effectively 34-0), having taken on all the greats of his era?
How did Fedor take on all the greats of his era? Just look at his reign as Pride champion, he only fought 2 top 10 heavyweights in almost 4 years! 3 if you include Mark Hunt (who I've never ranked top 10 myself).
Anderson Silva in roughly the same time span fought not only 6 title defences against top 10 opponents, but went out and sought fighters in higher weight classes to challenge himself (as opposed to Fedor who actually finds a Middleweight to fight).
How can Fedor be considered the GOAT when he has NEVER fought all the greats of his era, whether it be during his Pride reign or afterwards?
The point of the stats was to show how Fedor barely fought anyone after winning the belt. For chrissakes, his first three opponents as Pride champion included Valavicius(who?) and Gary Goodridge!
Fedor consistently fights opponents above his weight as well. Also, I never claimed Fedor never fought a can, or sticks out miles above the fighters you name.
However, Fedor did fight the greats of his time, many opponents who according to critics at the time he had little chance against. No one can beat Nog, Nog will win the rematch, Mirko is too strong standing, Fedor can't beat a good wrestler like Coleman, ad nauseam.
Though hardly the most prestigious wins, you can't say beating Semmy Schilt, Mark Hunt, etc., is nothing. Even after Pride he still fought top 10 opponents. And yes, those include Sylvia and AA. They were top 10 in all major rankings. Though these are of course not his crowning achievements.
Contrast that to a guy like A. Silva. He fought a great deal of cans in the beginning of his career, which is not so odd if it were not that he lost to TWO of them. Who were the true definition of can I might add. Very inconsistent fighter until his UFC run.
He has been on a roll lately though and may indeed one day be the GOAT, who knows. But I cannot see how you could possible deny that Fedor is at this point not the GOAT. He has more fights, more wins, no losses (let alone losses to cans). On top of all that, Anderson never had a Fedor - Cro Cop or Fedor - Nog. If you cannot see this, you were probably not around when Fedor fought Nog the first time. Many people do not realize how good and highly regarded he was back then.
Anderson's wins over Hendo and Franklin are admirable, but not even close. That being said I do not profess to have any authority over this matter and respect your opinion, I'm merely stating mine.
1st fedor has lost
2nd you mentioned anderson doesn't have a 'nog' on his resume. well he does have dan henderson, who gave nog all he could handle in 2 fights, despite being outweighed by 30#s.
Yes he has lost, but due to the manner of the loss it has no bearing on his GOAT standing. Cut stoppage due to an illegal elbow is not a loss proper in this context.
For your second point see the above post, Boge head explained it pretty well. Of course you can youtube/google the fight and see for yourself, since it seems you don't remember how those fights went down.
Dan Henderson is a legend and great fighter, but he has had many controversial decisions and many unconvincing wins. That is of course relative to some of his contemporaries who also became legends later on. Beating Henderson is in no way proportionate to beating Nog in his prime.
FastwalkerFedor consistently fights opponents above his weight as well.
He's a heavyweight, the rules applying to fighting above your weight class generally do not apply between heavyweights and superheavyweights. This is common in all combat sports. Until recently (ie. with Brock/Carwin) you did not have superheavyweights who could beat anyone in the top 10 heavyweights list. Fedor or Crocop's wins over Hong Man Choi are not taken seriously by anyone when looking at their place in heavweight rankings.
However, Fedor did fight the greats of his time, many opponents who according to critics at the time he had little chance against. No one can beat Nog, Nog will win the rematch, Mirko is too strong standing, Fedor can't beat a good wrestler like Coleman, ad nauseam.
Mirko was a great fight for Fedor, as was his fight with Nog. Fedor earned the heavyweight Pride championship. He did not fight most of the top fighters in Pride during his reign though.
Though hardly the most prestigious wins, you can't say beating Semmy Schilt, Mark Hunt, etc., is nothing.
They weren't nothing, they were decent opponents. Semmy Schilt was a good fight for an upcoming heavyweight coming from a different organisation (which Fedor was at the time), but for the champ, I don't see Mark Hunt as being a great fight. True, Mark beat Mirko due to their style matchup, and I'd take Mark Hunt over Mirko if they'd had a second K-1 match (and arguably that's exactly what their Pride fight was). He had no business fighting for the belt, especially coming off a first round sub loss to Josh. I had a look at his record just now, he's lost his last 5 MMA fights (including the one with Fedor), all in the first round.
Even after Pride he still fought top 10 opponents. And yes, those include Sylvia and AA. They were top 10 in all major rankings. Though these are of course not his crowning achievements.
That's true, he fought 2 (and 3 coming this weekend) top 10 opponents...THREE years after his last top 10 opponent. Agree they weren't his crowning achievements, but they were enough to keep him in the heavyweight rankings.
Contrast that to a guy like A. Silva. He fought a great deal of cans in the beginning of his career, which is not so odd if it were not that he lost to TWO of them. Who were the true definition of can I might add. Very inconsistent fighter until his UFC run.
Agreed, but as with Fedor, you'll notice I'm not talking about their pre-championship career. Once they reached the top, Anderson kept active fighting the best. Can you tell me how many times in MMA history has the number one ranked fighter in history consistently fought top opponents and not lost (discounting retirement)? It doesn't happen.
[qipte]He has been on a roll lately though and may indeed one day be the GOAT, who knows. But I cannot see how you could possibly deny that Fedor is at this point not the GOAT. He has more fights, more wins, no losses (let alone losses to cans).
On top of all that, Anderson never had a Fedor - Cro Cop or Fedor - Nog. If you cannot see this, you were probably not around when Fedor fought Nog the first time. Many people do not realize how good and highly regarded he was back then.
I've been a member of the UG since 2002 ie. before they fought...
I know exactly who Nog was at the time, and Fedor EARNED the belt and his number one ranking in 2002. I do not in any way dispute this.
Anderson's wins over Hendo and Franklin are admirable, but not even close. That being said I do not profess to have any authority over this matter and respect your opinion, I'm merely stating mine.
I understand your opinion as well, I just disagree. From my view Fedor has FAILED to fight most of the top 10 fighters in his weight division at any one point in his career. Anderson had pretty much cleared out his division in the UFC, they have to bring in top fighters from other weight divisions (ie. Vitor) or other organisational champs (Chael) to fight him. He is tested regularly.
My point is if Fedor had to fight another 4-5 top heavyweights, I think he'd have at least a loss or two on his record. Maybe he wouldn't though. Either way, if he had fought those people, he'd have a case for GOAT. The fact is he didn't.
And if he fails to compete in the UFC, with his record he'll be forgotten, perhaps occasionally invoked by old-school MMA fans from the early Pride days, but discounted as one of the GOAT.