Upa escape from mount.. points or not?

Some confusion this weekend..

If your mounted and you upa and reverse the position.

Do you get points?

Absolutely not

No.

No, it has to be some sort of guard for points. No points for rolling someone from mount, side mount, knee on stomach or north/south.

ADCC? I think for side mount you do get points. Not sure about mount.

ok thats exactly what I thought. Saw a ref give points for it at a local tournament and I was like wtf.

That ref shouldn't be ref'n if he gave points for an Upa escape from the mount.

 reversal points,some tournie use them.any change from top to bottom.jordan lost to a 10th planet guy at a tournie,went for  4 submission ended up on the bottom and the guy won with 8 points.jordan had 2 take dns and a guard pass.tried to get the vid from eddie but he wouldnt give it up

local tournaments can have dipshit rules though.

IBJJF is a sweep initiated by your legs is points, a reversal is an advantage.

This tournament could have said this is a reversal worth points

Mud Monster - That ref shouldn't be ref'n if he gave points for an Upa escape from the mount.


In the guys defense people make mistakes and its hard to get people to ref local tournaments. I am sure he was doing the best he could.

it's a defensive maneuver - no points

Judo Scott - Some confusion this weekend..

If your mounted and you upa and reverse the position.

Do you get points?




if not a major tourney, you need the rules of that tourney. knowing ibjjf rules doesnt mean shit

bonez05 - local tournaments can have dipshit rules though.

IBJJF is a sweep initiated by your legs is points, a reversal is an advantage.

This tournament could have said this is a reversal worth points


No points or advantage either for a reversal (i.e. upa from mount to guard). That is pretty standard for IBJJF & MOST tournaments. One exception I am aware of is under NAGA no-gi rules, points are awarded for dominant position, so, for example if you were side mounted, and reversed the position so that you had side mount on your opponent, you would get two points for the side control position. However, upa from mount to guard would still be no points.

It's no points, and I think most of us agree it shouldn't be, but do the rules clarify why it's not? I'm assuming sweeps need to start from the guard, but what is a guard these days? With the advent of all these funky guards you can't say it's both legs around your opponent anymore. Plus I've heard that you need to sweep "with the legs" in order to score points. Well, the upa escape is heavily dependent on using your legs to roll/sweep the person. So in a sense you upa/sweep the person "with your legs." I guess you could argue that you can't score points from a sweep if you are in a dangerous position (e.g., mount). But couldn't you argue that other positions (e.g., half guard) may put you in a dangerous position as well depending on who you're going against? Anyway, I'm heavily against giving sweep points for upa. Just wanted to throw out some points for discussion.

aaronlapoi - It's no points, and I think most of us agree it shouldn't be, but do the rules clarify why it's not? I'm assuming sweeps need to start from the guard, but what is a guard these days? With the advent of all these funky guards you can't say it's both legs around your opponent anymore. Plus I've heard that you need to sweep "with the legs" in order to score points. Well, the upa escape is heavily dependent on using your legs to roll/sweep the person. So in a sense you upa/sweep the person "with your legs." I guess you could argue that you can't score points from a sweep if you are in a dangerous position (e.g., mount). But couldn't you argue that other positions (e.g., half guard) may put you in a dangerous position as well depending on who you're going against? Anyway, I'm heavily against giving sweep points for upa. Just wanted to throw out some points for discussion.


So, the reason you don't get sweep points for the upa is that for it to be a sweep it MUST start in a guard position....any guard position, closed, open, half-guard, and all the variations. I'm not sure of the way that IBJJF does or will officially define the guard position, but basically it's any position in which your legs are in between you and your opponent (and turtle is not a guard). Even if you are sitting in front of your opponent and they are standing over you, they are in your guard.

I think they are kind of getting away from the language that a sweep must involve your legs. That is how is kind of used to be explained, but there are a lot of sweeps where this is not really the case (i.e. elbow roll sweep, armdrag to the back). Basically, whenever your opponent is in your guard, and you go from the bottom to the top, that is a sweep, regardless of who initiated the position. Of course, you must maintain the top position for at least 3 secs. and you must clear any submission attempt(footlock, guillotine, etc.)before you can get points.

What about turning into a single leg from bottom side control, getting to knees, then feet and then taking the guy down? Is that a scoring move? If so is it a sweep or a takedown?

I've heard it called a sweep before but going by the above rule it's either a reversal(no points) or a takedown. Phone Post

ChipW - What about turning into a single leg from bottom side control, getting to knees, then feet and then taking the guy down? Is that a scoring move? If so is it a sweep or a takedown? <br><br>I've heard it called a sweep before but going by the above rule it's either a reversal(no points) or a takedown. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


we train a sweep where you trap a leg, stand, and take them down.

if it's initiated from the guard, than its a sweep.

ChipW - What about turning into a single leg from bottom side control, getting to knees, then feet and then taking the guy down? Is that a scoring move? If so is it a sweep or a takedown? <br><br>I've heard it called a sweep before but going by the above rule it's either a reversal(no points) or a takedown. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


Good question....this comes up a lot & always causes controversy. As stated before, if it starts from a guard position, it would be a sweep. But, in the scenario you described from side control it would be NO POINTS. A takedown can never start from the ground, so if you come up from a grounded position & the grips don't change then you put the guy down it's nothing.

Thanks shermbe and subdude I know I've gotten points awarded for bridging into a single from side body before. I thought it was wrong but I wasn't going to argue. Lol
Thanks for clarifying Phone Post

"What about turning into a single leg from bottom side control, getting to knees, then feet and then taking the guy down? Is that a scoring move? If so is it a sweep or a takedown? "

According to a ref's seminar I went to with one of the few if any non-Brazilians involved in redrafting the IBJJF rules, Stephen Kamphuis, any continuous movement that starts from the guard and puts the guy down is regarded as a sweep. If there is a break in the movement (e.g. the guard guy goes to knees, stops and then initiates a takedown from the knees) it is not regarded as a sweep and does not get sweep points. If you, say started in open guard, spun to your knees and picked the guy's ankle in a continuous movement, that would be a sweep.

In the situation you describe, if you got TO YOUR FEET from under side control, then took the guy down FROM HIS FEET, that would be a takedown, 2 points. If either of you are not on your feet when the "takedown" occurs, then no points. You might get an advantage if you are on your feet and he is on one or both knees.

IMO - it isn't always clear cut.