Wait a Second here!!!!!!!!!!

I want to get something ironed out here and what the forum's true opinions on this matter.

If I, Liborio1 or Joslins hold an event without CJA sanctioning, we will get arrested and charged under whatever LAW there is for promoting an event. I have personally HEARD THIS FROM THE MOUTH of the Ontario Athletic Commission NUMEROUS times. Thus, the lack of grappling events in Ontario in the past 2 years has been RIDICULOUS. We have to follow this and that, that and this rule, etc, etc. I quote: THE ONLY SANCTIONING BODY RECOGNIZED BY THE GOVERNMENT OF ONTARIO IS THE CJA. ANY OTHER ORGANIZATION CANNOT SANCTION AS THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE RECOGNIZED BODY. That is pretty much verbatim from the commissioner. So, I and my fellow promoters do what we can to follow the rules to avoid any sort of criminal record.

This past weekend, there was an event sanctioned by a body that does not exhist under the Ontario Ministry's Athletic Office. It went off great. People had a good time, some excellent competiong went on, etc, etc. THAT IS AMAZING. Nothing wrong with that. Wish we could have more events like this EVERY WEEKEND. But hold on a second. There are those of us who are doing everything freakin' possible to work with the government and sanctioning bodies and get screwed left, right and center, because, hey, we want to follow the rules.

In walks in another party, oblivious to the law and holds an event like it was just another day.

Are Liborio1 and myself, and other people the only parties frustrated with this? I'm not saying this to get the parties who held the event in any trouble. Hell no. My issue is larger than that. If what they did was not illegal, may I please have the number of their sanctioning body? May I use the same one? Do we say good bye to the CJA and thank them and the commission for making our lives miserable for the past two years. A precedent was set this weekend? What now?

I'm interested to hear some opinions on this matter.

All animals are equal...some more equal than others.

I've had a difficult time trying to understand the politics behind all of this. Who is the sanctioning body for the CJA? Why isn't there at least 12 events a year? Are there other sanctioning bodies that can legally throw an event like this? How do we get an audience with the athletic commissioner? If the promoters, forum members, competitors and fans alike are all seeking the same goal, why are there so many restrictions on sanctioning? It's a simple case of supply and demand. One of you smart fellas should create some direction, get people involved, become Grappling Activists. HELL Ya, POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!(phew... went off there for a sec.)Seriously, can't we apply a little pressure where needed, isn't that what we do? Who do we flood with phone calls, E-mails and faxes? Who do we gotta vote for? Who do we gotta grease? Who needs to "swim with the fishes"?

Sounds like WKF just did things small and under the radar. If they can pull it off, all the power to them.

I agree with Showdown Joe. It's nice that WKF didn't get busted. People had a good time, FRANCO/BEHRING KICKED ASS, things basically went off without a hitch.

Sneaking around "under the radar", however, does nothing to help legitimize our sport. Joe and his posse have been busting their balls trying to make that dream a reality. If the WKF and others really care about this sport they will get in contact with Joe, and work with him to make things better.

Ignoring the laws won't make them go awa. Hard work, integrity, and a love of the game will.


You work and work and work to get the permits to open your quality restaurant the way it's supposed to be done, just to have someone else show up across the street and quick-build a non-compliance diner.

Makes you wonder if all the effort it worthwhile.

It is.

You can operate outside the law (even stupid law) and many times no one will notice, especially if you're small and niche. But when they notice, you will be screwed, and sometimes screw the people with you (sometimes even screw those trying to do things the proper way--for example, an injury occuring which causes the government to prevent any and all events, sanctioned or not).

But at the end of the day, you're not after the quicky under-the-radar fix. You're after changing the way things are done, so that consistent, reliable, and lasting tournaments can be a reality in your province. That's not an easy goal. That's not word-of-mouth little events you hope and pay no one notices. That's worthy stuff.

That's a legacy.

Of course, it's often not appreciated stuff. Entitlement and self-service and nigh rampant nowadays.
But that's what makes it noble.

Joe, Liborio1, Joslin, Bravado, and everyone else working their asses off to do it the right way are doing it just that--the right way. Nothing else matters.

WKF did not sneak under the radar.


StelaD, what do you mean? Did they get caught? Or do they legally sanction themselves?

An idea: What if we had a legal defense fund? People hold a tournament and get busted for it. Plead not guilty on the grounds that the Ontario athletic commission is not doing its job. Get the legislation changed in the courts. I know this sounds kind of Hollywood, but has anyone else thought along these lines?


not lettuce let me ask you this is TKD Karate?

is sambo judo? i'm not asking if they are similar just asking if they are the same. if you change the rules do you have a new game? is bjj judo?

if 'a party' can meet the government's and isurnace requirements i don't see how it is in violation. you can't violate something that isn't as clear cut as some parties make it sound ...two months ago you didn't have to be a member of CJA to compete at Acton, now you have to be? shady

most other sports, that are organized, have national governing/sanctioning bodies and provintial associations. where allowed and poossible you might have pro and amateur or recreational associations that have voting rights in the national and provintial associations/organizations etc. which organization prevails usually depends on membership support, which translates to the word budget. as for government regulations: if you have two organization that can demonstrate ability to meet gov standards and insurance requirements which one will you choose? i will not join the cja. at least not untill they can demmonstrate that they know what they are doing as far as grappling is concerned. this is my personal opinion!!!


maybe this has been suggested before

Why couldn't you guys get sanction from Judo Ontario. Just throw out the Knee Bar, Ankle lock, Lower body submission etc.

Change the rule a little bit, after a throw continue fighting on the ground,

No stopping if the action is too slow on the ground


I'll never get mma in Ontario will I?


While BJJ is not that big yet, it's hard to imagine there is no one with a relative or significant contact in goverment or media that could be used to bring pressure/exposure to the issue. That's probably the only way to get change.

StelaD, what's shady is people, inspite of knowing exactly what to do to get BJJ going in Ontario, bitching, complaining, spreading misinformation, playing petty politics, and otherwise doing everything possible to derail and delay it.

Joe- move to Quebec. You'll get a full head of hair back, and you can help people like Fabio, Pedro, etc. organize a full circuit.

isn't this usually were JHR steps in and voila we see a pic of Joe with a full head of hair?

The amount of time I spend on photoshop you'd think I'd be able to pull it off...

But trying to get hair on Joe's head is just far too big of a job !



IMO and experience it takes a unified effort to get things going in the right direction...as for the shady comment...i stand by it even more now that you clarified it:).


" WKF did not sneak under the radar..."

StelaD...please explain. Seriously, I'd like to know. Reason I ask is that I'm pretty positive that the WKF is not recognized under the Ontario Provincial Sports Organizations and thus, cannot be the sole sanctioning body of any event.

FIFA Soccer cannot regulate a soccer event/match in Ontario. The Ontario Soccer Asscociation can, with rules set out be FIFA.

Help me out here...this could go a long way with many, many plans I have set for.

Rene...if I was single, I would have already moved to Montreal A LONG TIME AGO. Believe that my friend.


You have mail...I have your hotmail addy, so I hope it's still correct.

You can be married in MTL. It ain't is, but it is *possible* :)