Written letters are usually taken far more seriously than e-mail.
The word I have from Robert Krantz (head of WKF S. Ontario) is this: the WKF has federal permission to sanction jiu-jitsu tournaments. While the CJA is the sole Ontario granting agency for JJ tourneys, this does not affect the WKF. Interested parties can contact Sensei Krantz directly for more information.
-Bryan
As per Computer Warrior,
" Even if it was easier to have events sactioned how many more people would throw tournaments. You would have CJA Nationals, Joslins, Showdown? How many others with put up the money to throw an event? "
Honestly, I believe there would be many, many more events being held, even smaller ones to help build the larger ones. We could have a circuit (of which a few of us have the plans...:)..) where there would be monthly, quarterly and a big annual event rewarding the best overall GRAPPLER, TEAM etc. I can do it, but I just need the proper sanctioning and fair costs to run an event.
As per making a mockery of the e-mail server, that's one way, but the other way is to simply join the CJA. I understand it's a tired and bleak 'heard it before' scenario, but they are willing to sanction OUR events with OUR rules. It's that simple.
BSB...may I have Sensie Krantz's contact info please.
I have no idea if this would amount to a hill of beans with the beaurocrats in Ontario, but the International Shooto Commission is working on breaking into BC.
The ISC is an international sanctioining body for professional and amateur full-contact martial arts events... and for Shooto grappling rules events (no gi submission-grappling). There are sanctioned events in Japan, Australia, Holland, Finland, Latvia, Brazil, Switzerland, the USA and perhaps soon in Canada.
Shooto, as a martial arts sport (not a promotion), has received approval from the Vancouver Athletic Commission, the Nevada Athletic Commission, The Illinois Department of Regulation (currently working with that state to establish official state sanctioning for MMA), The Melbourne Sports Commission, The Tennesse Boxing Commission.
If there is anyway to help in Ontario, anyone with information can contact me at rich@shootoamericas.com
Best Regards, Rich Santoro
Director, ISC
Americas Division
You have mail sir.
Well alright! I'm on the road to hell! Woo!
Joe, l know you guys would/will run more tourmanents.
I guess all this shit and all the hassles that go on would be solved for twenty dollars.
If you want to argue about where is you twenty dollars going well you can do research yourself or you can send Danny (there are few that put as much work into this as him and a few others so maybe show some respect) a civilized email or send the CJA a letter yourself.
I hope that the people that make the most noise and you know who you are truly put as much energy into helping the tournament scene as they do bitching on the net.
If there is one person online that can honestly say that they have not spent 20$ in the last year stupidly then they are full of shit.
Guys, let me make this clear, the tournament in Hamilton was NOT a sanctioned Grappling tournament and he was warned by the CJA that if he continued he can face action from the OAC ($10,000 fine). The CJA doesn't walk around policing people from doing tournaments. But if you get caught you could lose your insurance,get fined from the OAC and your insurance carrier may drop you since you are considered high risk. And after all that,you may not be guaranteed to be accepted as a member of the CJA if you are considered an insurance risk after the fact.
We have quite a few jiu-jitsu schools now in the process of joining. Enough talk guys, lets join and get busy with competitions.That is what we want, and joining is the only method of doing so.If your not happy with the current situation,do nothing but don't blame us for the grief. The CJA i believe is going out of its way to help the BJJ community and time after time again the same ordeal goes on.
If they (WKF) say they can sanction tournaments it is news for me. I know for sure that only the CJA is recognized in the province of Ontario to sanction jiu-jitsu/grappling tournaments.
Dan Moroney
I don't know much about the WKF, nor do I want them to get in any trouble. I want to make that clear to anyone reading this. I just want us all to play and follow the same rules. I'm confident in saying that the WKF event was not a legal/sanctioned event, but I MAY BE WRONG. I don't think I am, but there is that possiblity.
If I am wrong, than good for them, and who can I contact to hold my next event. But from my own knowledge and experience, there appears to be a BIG PROBLEM here, especially if the party involved was warned by the CJA.
Now we have a seperate issue altogether.
Hey Joe:
Here is Sensei Krantz's contact info:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~miltonjj/
email:
miltonjj@cogeco.ca
He will be able to answer all your questions...
-Bryan
Dan, it seems to me by what you've said, that even you
are not 100% certain if the WKF in an authority under
which to have sanctioned tourney's.
Bryan said:
The word I have from Robert Krantz (head of WKF S. Ontario) is this: the WKF has federal permission to sanction jiu-jitsu tournaments. While the CJA is the sole Ontario granting agency for JJ tourneys, this does not affect the WKF.
Dan said:
Guys, let me make this clear, the tournament in Hamilton was NOT a sanctioned Grappling tournament and he was warned by the CJA that if he continued he can face action from the OAC ($10,000 fine).
and;
If they (WKF) say they can sanction tournaments it is news for me. I know for sure that only the CJA is recognized in the province of Ontario to sanction jiu-jitsu/grappling tournaments.
Dan, when I read this, I hear you being somewhat
contradictory. Don't get me wrong, I respect and
admire what you've done and continue to do for the
local grappling community, I just read some
uncertainty in your words.
What are you confused about Wayne-o?
I think Dans post is pretty clear.
CW, where do you read me saying I'm confused? Let me
break it down so it is simpler for you.
the tournament in Hamilton was NOT a sanctioned Grappling tournament; If they (WKF) say they can sanction tournaments it is news for me.
In one breath he's saying it was not sanctioned, and
in the next breath he's saying if they say they can
sanction tournaments it is news for him. You don't
see the uncertainty in these words?
Maybe there's rules and regulations within the WFK that members of the CJA are not familiar with, with regards to the sanctioning issue. This is all I'm
saying.
And CW, for your info I'm not bitching, I'm being
inquisitive. I've also emailed both the CJA and the
WKF to get their perspectives.
This is a public forum. Anyone can use it, and can
say anything under the forum rules. If someone has
a question or idea to share, this is the forum to do
just that. You may not agree what is said, and that's
fine. You don't have to tell people to use the phone,
email or whatever the case is, little do you know
they may already have done that.
I think it's safe to say that Danny fully knows what he is talking about. 'News to me' may be interprutted as 'I don't think the WKF has any juristiction to do anything in Ontario.'.
I'm thinking of changing my screen name to 'broken record'. Again, for the 367th time, IN ONTARIO, things are done differently. There are different rules and regulations that are followed that are very DIFFERENT than those followed in OTHER provinces. BC and Quebec are very liberal and open as opposed to Ontario, very conservative and not open to change.
Sensei Krantz may not be the bad guy here either. He may have been told otherwise by the WKF and may have been told otherwise by other parties. For all we (or he ) knows, the WKF may have told him that they can sanction events anywhere, federally, and perhaps they do not know either, that they do not have juristiction in Ontario.
Now, if he held the event knowing full well that he could get charged, or was defiant of the law, then it is a decision he chose to make.
last time i checked ontario is part of canada :)but then again laws/regulations are a funny thing...ufff i know that there is a way darn it...i will find it.
cheers
Wayne-o
As Joe said
I think it's safe to say that Danny fully knows what he is talking about. 'News to me' may be interprutted as 'I don't think the WKF has any juristiction to do anything in Ontario.'.
I figured you were likely able to read between the lines. I am glad your inquisitve but the truth is likely 80% or more are likely not doing a damn thing about this just talking shit online.
I also realise that this is a public forum. At no point did l say that you cant question anyone. Ask Danny a million questions. All l said is to be respectful to the few guys that are trying to help this sport. When it comes down to it only a few have likely signed up with the CJA and l bet there will be at least 5 threads after the Nationals saying it cost me 70$ for one fuckin match.
What l get from what l have read it this. IF WE WANT TO HAVE TOURNAMENTS THEN WE ARE PAYING 20 DOLLARS TO DO SO.
If we have questions direct them at the people that can answer them not go on a rant on mma.tv
BTW l am not directing my statement at you. This is just you have to do something if you disagree with the 20 dollars it cost to be a member.
I don't think Wayne-O could ever get upset at anyone. He's one of the nicest guys I know. For anyone else inquiring, you can always count on Wayne-o to support EVERY FREAKIN' event out there. I've seen him at various amateur Boxing, Muay Thai, Grappling and Pro Boxing and MMA events. A percentage of his income goes towards the combat sports...lol.
To continue this topic, there is only ONE Boxing Ontario, One Judo Ontario, One Wrestling Ontario, etc, etc. Feel free to research to see what a member has to pay to be affiliated by any of these organizations. No different than what the CJA is asking.
The key issue is the word GRAPPLING. The CJA is not Grappling, but they are willing to sanction it and create a 'special' division within for grappling. Where's the problem here?
Mr. Krantsz will of course say whatever (since he is a former CJA member) to boost the membership of the WKF. If anybody thinks what i stated is wrong then please call Mr. Ken Hyashi from the Ontario Athletics Commision and he will clarify the situation.
The issue here is plain and simple.
For the past few years, we've been told that CJA is the only sanctioning body, and the bjj / submission grappling community has suffered.
Suddenly there is a grappling tournament without CJA sanctioning and no one is accountable?
That's a slap in the face to those of us who are trying to go through proper channels.
Despite the lack of tournaments within Ontario, you have to admit, Ontario grapplers really do kick ass.
However, how will our talent develop further when our best fighters travel outside province to test their skills.
danny@showdown.ca