Not only his teeth, but his ego were crushed.
Ryan Dunphy - I was talking about whatever submission he said he was trying to do. I have noticed newer guys try to do submissions that dont work or dont exist for a reason, instead of the stuff that makes you better. You want to really want get better? Right after sweeping him go back to your guard and try it again. There is no white belt stripmall gold medal to win so quit trying so hard to win it.VTFU, well said sir
If I have a white or blue (or whatever belt) be a hack when they roll I will let them know that its not cool. I have gotten more tweaks and stingers from hackish rolling I dont have any time for it anymore. I can elbow grind, cross face, pressure point, pry open guards with points of my elbows with the best of them but I don't do it because it unrefined and does nothing for anyone. I dont need to learn how do deal with spaz/hack grappler for some real life or tournament situation so I have no need to risk injury messing around with that at the gym.
Step outside the BJJ(or martial art training in general) box sometime and you will see how fucked up some of it is. This guy sounds like a few hundred guys who end up jsut never coming back
Im huge on flow and not grind when training. Huge. But what happened with you was nothing wrong. You didnt do anything wrong. Applying and dealing with downward pressure in BJJ is part of the art.
My main concern is that I stepped outside the bounds of what proper BJJ etiquette should be. I'm just learning so I really don't know if I did something wrong.
I definitely was trying to work a proper choke but he blocked it, so I tried other means to get a tap. I have come home from rolling with nasty GI burn all over my face from the higher belts doing it to me constantly, so I would never think that this is something I shouldn't be doing.
You didn't do anything wrong, however I usually wait until I know someone a little better before using crank or smother type submission attempts, especially in pure BJJ...
He should be able to verbally tap though.....
Etiquette among training partners is, of course, very important in BJJ. There has to be a mutual respect and understanding that even though we may train hard, we're not going to get out of control and lose focus on our responsibility not to injure one another.
That said, if my training partner has me trapped in a position where he's going for a choke, and I defend it my tucking my chin and absorbing the pressure with my jaw and teeth, I don't believe that I'm entitled to expect to release the hold or to apply less pressure than he would if he'd caught my neck. Instead, I think my options in that situation would be (1) lift my chin and hope I can escape the position before the choke gets tightened around my neck, or (2) go ahead and tap. I don't see any reason to get pissed at the guy for attempting a legal technique such as a chokehole just because I chose to defend it by sticking my teeth in front of his arm.
From what you wrote, I will add another vote to the "you didn't do anything wrong" column.
It's been years since I rolled, but getting my face smashed always pissed me off.
I'll just add that in a way, you're cheating your partner if you DON'T keep applying pressure in this situation. If you let the guy off the hook when he blocks your choke attempt with his teeth, then he's just going to be more inclined to rely on that as a defense and will probably never take the time to learn the right techniques to get out of that situation.
In competition, if your opponent has the grip and leverage to apply a choke hold and you think you can defend it by absorbing the pressure with your jaw, you're going to be in for a rude awakening when the guy doesn't politely release the hold because your teeth got in the way.
^ EXACTLY. I always tell students, tucking your chin is not a defense to chokes. Do it properly or tap.
IMO it doesn't matter whether its proper ettiquette or not (from what you've said, it sounds like you were in the right) its about the blue belt's lack of control. This is a contact sport and we are training to be better fighters.
I try not to be "grimey" when training with teamates, but if you're in a tournament or real fight, those are the things that are going to make a difference.
BJJ is about controlling your emotions, staying calm, and staying focused. If a little bit of head pressure is going to make him crumble, I can't see him getting much further in the sport.
Eh_J - I've only been training in BJJ for about 6 weeks or so. I have a bit of a background in judo and wrestling so I like to think that I'm picking it up pretty quick.
Last roll of the class, and I hook up with this blue belt. I definitely outweighed him, but not by too much.
Anyhow, I am fortunate enough to hit a sweep and end up in side control on his right side. I snake my left hand above his left shoulder and then under his neck. I start moving to north south. I don't have the choke in properly, but I am kinda face crushing with my chest and lifting under his neck so he is definitely in some pain.
I end up getting a better choke grip and I know I have him, but he won't tap. I keep going gradually and slowly tighter, waiting for him to tap, and he still won't. He is also making no effort to escape. Finally, he taps, but instead of tapping normally, he slaps me really fucking hard in the back of the neck several times. I let him go, and he keeps hitting me.
He gets out and starts screaming at me for 'crushing his teeth'. The instructor came right over and gave HIM shit for acting like that. According to everyone else, it isn't the first time this guy has pulled something like this and he was probably just pissed about being tapped by a lowly whitey like me.
Bottom line is that I still have no concept about proper BJJ etiquette. I certainly wasn't trying to do anything wrong.... So was I wrong here? Should I have done something differently?
PS
FRAT.
Couple questions, 1)What would you estimate the weight difference to be?
2)What sweep did you use?
3)Have you rolled with this particular fellow before in class? If so how did it go?
Different ideas for sure. The newer White and Blues that have had some success will feel will call the guy a pussy and tell him to deal with anything that is thrown at him or quit. I have trained at several places where the attitude was "get tough or leave" and if you had the misfortune of having your Guard passed, you drove home that night with your neck and jaw all jacked up and scratches and marks all over your face.
BJJ should be for everyone, but it is your own responsibility to figure out who you want to train with and what you are prepared to deal with as far as intensity.
prying someones hand off one finger at a time by bending the finger backwards as far as possible,forearm grinds, trying to finish rnc while your forearm is across the face, that weird totally wrong americana big guys do to little guys where they are trying to bend their arm behind their head while one of big guys arms is on the wrong side of the persons head , fish hooks, eye gouging, and oil checks..........all bad ettiquite
I've trained at a few different places and some places are more intense than others. But if you're training with guys that train to compete then when rolling live, you roll live. Thats part of the beauty of grappling. Even as you progress through the ranks its still always good to roll with newer guys to get a feel for the way they react as opposed to someone who was trained to react certain ways.
Dude was a bitch and embarassed. I've been getting my ass kicked for years. Some guys have gone ape shit on me and tore me a new asshole. Some guys flow smooth and have perfect technique that kills me. You lick your wounds and figure out how to deal with it.
Zenoplata -HereWeAre -Randy Marsh -HereWeAre - Do you have a tendency to crush people's teeth?
Are you the face crushing guy?
What's wrong with face crushing during grappling?
It gets annoying.
I mean I get where this blue belt is coming from because I have no problem tapping to a move executed with superior technique but I hate tapping to bullshit moves like tooth smashing.
But I would have just tapped calmly and then smashed your face right back. Maybe go knee on chin instead of belly. haha
Why don't you try a proper defense rather than using your chin?
Oh I would have but there are other positions where you can get your teeth smashed. When you are with a person that rolls rough you have to recognize that and not put yourself in the situation where you can get smashed.
But in my opinion the face smash to get a tap is not a legit move and the point of training is to practice legit technique. If you are putting pressure on his head to keep his head turned away so he can't shrimp then that is different.
HereWeAre - But in my opinion the face smash to get a tap is not a legit move and the point of training is to practice legit technique. If you are putting pressure on his head to keep his head turned away so he can't shrimp then that is different.What about putting pressure on his face/jaw to force the guy to lift his chin so you can finish the choke? "Legit move," or no?
TheDigitalRuler -HereWeAre - But in my opinion the face smash to get a tap is not a legit move and the point of training is to practice legit technique. If you are putting pressure on his head to keep his head turned away so he can't shrimp then that is different.What about putting pressure on his face/jaw to force the guy to lift his chin so you can finish the choke? "Legit move," or no?
Not really but done in moderation it's not too annoying. There are people who get chokes in on me without smashing my face on a regular basis.
But I'm not the type to complain. I don't get mad I just get even.
Squatcat -BJJ isn't like Judo, it's about making your technique as clean as possible.
WTF is that supposed to mean? In judo it's illegal to face rape someone where in BJJ it's perfectly acceptable to choke out someones teeth or nose.
I got no problem with BJJ overall but you seem like a dick.
Just sayin.