yep, very special
"Don't overestimate the effect Royce had. The UFC would have been popular regardless of what fighter, or style, reigned supreme at that time."
The UFC wouldn't have existed without the Gracies, it was Rorion's idea to have the event in the first place.
Was Royce special? Yes - the single biggest influence on MMA, nothing can change that. Could other BJJ blackbelts have done the same in the early UFCs as he did? Probably, but that doesn't matter one tiny little bit, because with Royce there's no 'could have done it' stuff - he DID it. Some people seem to have little understanding of the huge difference that makes.
Royce is and always will be the man - why is it so hard for some people to just accept that truth and give the guy his props? I seriously doubt that there are many fighters of Royce's weight around NOW who could beat four guys like Shammy, Kimo, Gordeau etc. in one night, in fact I think it would be quite difficult to find many current MMA competitors who would even be prepared to try. At least give Royce some respect for his courage huh? that kind of event takes huge balls to fight in, especially when you're the lightest guy in the whole event.
"UFC was created (by Rorion) as a marketing tool for Gracie Jiu-Jitsu."
And they proved the effectiveness of GJJ/BJJ.
They opened the event ot any and all fighters, having rejected no one. In fact, many of their invitations and challenges to fighters in the world of martial arts, boxing etc were not answered or taken up.
"They put Royce on instead of Rickson because Royce looked more like an average guy. It made the wins that much more impressive to demonstrate how effective BJJ was. "
Exactly
ttt
"Don't overestimate the effect Royce had. The UFC would have been popular regardless of what fighter, or style, reigned supreme at that time."
"The UFC wouldn't have existed without the Gracies, it was Rorion's idea to have the event in the first place."
I wondered how long it was going to take someone to correct the first statement above.
Yes, Royce was and is special. And the whole point of the early UFC's was to prove Gracie Jiu-Jitsu's superiority over other styles, which Royce obviously did. The UFC is much more a sport today, because people are a lot more athletic and cross train in just about everything so as to know what to expect from other fighters who have particular specialties. Royce though did have great cardio, and still does, probably better than most people. He has a very intense work out routine from what I've seen.
And of course there's the Gracie Diet. hehe :) Actually, I like the Gracie Diet. I realize not many other people do, and that's fine.
No one is saying that Gracie's invented grappling or submissions...not even them. If you go to each of their web sites and read the history section, they give complete credit where credit is due. They just take responsibility and ownership of their own breed of submissions and grappling which have today transformed dramatically.
TTT for Royce, always and forever a legend!!!
There was a comment on here about Ken Shamrock filling in Royce's shoes if Royce was never in the UFC. What an idiot! How could Ken Shamrock do the same thing Royce did if without the Gracies there would have never been a UFC? Would the Lion's Den have put on the UFC? Please peolpe, think before you post!
Another guy posted the question, if he's got such a warrior spirit, then why didn't he come out to fight after he fought Kimo? Again, think before you post! After submitting Kimo Royce did come out to face his next opponent Harold Haward. Royce did get banged up on the Kimo fight and was not feeling well, and before the fight started Royce's corner decided to throw in the towel. I remember distinctly Royce speaking to Helio and Relson, and Relson throwing in the towel. I have no doubt that had Helio told his son to fight, he would have fought even in his weakened condition. Don't question Royce's warrior spirit please!
MArtial Arts Legends:
Royce Gracie
Helio Gracie
Carlson Gracie
Bruce Lee
Dan Inosanto
Mitsuo Maeda
Gigoro Kano
Mas Oyama
These guys, in my opinion, were the most influential in modern martial arts and deserve their place in history.
Royce was special in my opinion, and still a good fighter today, but the sport has definitely caught up, in large part due to him and his families contribution to the sport, or should I say education on the effectiveness of BJJ. In todays MMA world, at the very least, every fighter had better at the very least have excellent submission defense if he even wants to remotely think about rising to the top of the sport....
I see good points on both side of the fence. Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle. As for myself, I respect Royce and remember him as the first person who did BJJ. If he fights, I like to watch him if I think he'll win or loose.
HOWEVER, now there's lots of youtube/myspace type websites on the internet. Is is possible that we could have still learned about BJJ from some Vale Tudo clips from Brazil? If yes, I know we'd still be years and years behind the BJJ scene.
ttt
i love the kimo thing. if kimo doesn't tap then he leaves the cage with no usage of that arm. the fact that he even gave royce a tough fight has allowed him to make a living ever since.
I'm so sick of these threads. Here's an easy question. How many of you would fight the people that he did, in the way that he did, without weight or time limit.
Answer, basically no one.
Like he said, "it's my house, I build it". No Royce = no modern day MMA.
How many people are doing Jiu Jitsu because of what he did? I know I am.
"Don't overestimate the effect Royce had. The UFC would have been popular regardless of what fighter, or style, reigned supreme at that time."
I hate to say this but the Gracies invented the UFC. So, there would NOT be a UFC if not for the Gracies.
And yes, they used Royce, not Rickson, because Rickson was considered the best Gracie and Rorion wanted to showcase GJJ the art, not showcase Rickson the fighter.
And yes, we can compare within era fighters to within era fighters. Also, to say that no one fights numerous opponents in one night, let alone defeating them all in one night, is not done now as Royce did numerous times.
So, who thinks that Chuck could beat Rampage, and then beat Fedor, and then beat Crocop all in one day?
Yes, all involved use different training and methods, both sides, so it is a valid example. Back then the guys had different styles, and most were heavier than Royce. He fought at 170-180lbs.
I think it depends what you mean; Royce was something special as a person, with exceptional balls and heart, and he was way ahead of his time. As a fighter, he was not special compared with the level of competition in mma right now, but that level of competition would be much lower if there hadn't been a Royce.
What if Royce came up now? With his skills now, what would he be in the UFC
is it time for this thread AGAIN?
Royce has big balls for some of the fights he has taken I feel he is a true fighter who never doubts himself even if the whoe world dose and I respect that and everything else he has done, and he is a pretty cool guy aswell.
Royce changed and impacted a ton of peoples lives back in the early UFC's, mine included. I was going to school at Northern Illinois at the time and Royce was a common used word around my circle of friends. Anytime there was a scuffle --- serious or not, we'd always find ourselves yelling, "Royce Him!!!" We could never quite understand what he did, but we always knew the outcome. As soon as J. Blatnick figured it out, and explained it to us, (as a beginner himself), most of us were hooked. Thanks Royce!
This is only bebatable because it's 15 years later. For those of you who are saying no, was that your answer the day after ufc 1?
Were there others who COULD have done what Royce did? Probably. But it's the combination of talent and initiative that made Royce special.
yes ttt