I have to agree with the original post and some of them in the thread, you wouldnt want to watch any of the old fighters (Johnson, Demsey etc) to learn technique, some of their technique was plain horrible.
Rocky Marciano was never known for his technique in fact was described as having 2 left feet, so i dont think he is a fair example. Sugar ray was awesome technically and IMo would beat alot of todays fighters in his weight class, Frazier as well, in fact although he was a "one handed fighter" he is still one of my favourites.
I think the main thing the oldies had is conditioning and heart, you gotta also remmember the gloves were smaller.
I get a bit frustrated with people telling me to watch this oldie to learn defense and this oldie to learn this and that and when i watch them (joe louis is a prime example) i just dont think that they TECHNICALLY have what it takes for modern boxing. I think this is also because alot of modern boxers have extensive amatuer careers, INSURING good fundamentals.
Just my thoughts, nothign original.
ttt
They were just that good...for their TIME. They were definately before their time, no doubts there, not the argument though.
Archie Moore was in the class with sugar ray, i still think he'd do well today.
Jack Dempsey is a hero of mine, i still hold to the fact that technically he would sink in todays boxing world.
Pretty much the same in all sports when comparing historical greats to todays athletes.
Its an apples/oranges comparison.
of course, if those old timers were fighting now instead of then they'd certainly not fight the same way they did then.
good point MSF
ripsnorter i still owe u a tape!!! motherf%&cker i forgot sorry dude.
I do agree with u on that, but i am reffering to older fighters than u reffered to in your post.
IMO, watching Jack Dempsey isn't very different from watching Roy Jones. Neither guy keeps his hands up... until just when they need it, and not until the last second. Neither guy just skips away from a charging opponent... but neither gets hit too bad, either. Both throw hooks from out in left field... and get KOs from them.
So, I guess RJJ has bad technique, nothing you'd want to copy, right?
Rocky Marciano is not as great as many would have you believe but at the same time he was far from being a slouch. He has alot of credible scalps to his name, even though his reign was for such a short period of time. Rocky by today's standards is just a cruiserweight ( his heaviest was 190lbs) but in his lack of size and skill he had a tremendous heart. A heart that saw him steam into his opponent eating punches so that he clould land one big one of his own. Rocky had also a good chin, and most importantly a quick recovery rate. This was shown in his knockdowns against Walcott and Moore. He was able to get himself of the canvas and come out slugging.
If the Rock was to fight in todays enviornment I think he would most likely be out boxed. Back in his day fighters prefered to dig their toes in and mix it up more often. On top of that, he would most likely find himself losing due to cuts or DQ. That is assuming he fought as a cruiserweight. If he fought in the heavy division, at his size, with his style and his penchant for taking punishment I think he would be on the canvas more often.
Just my thoughts.
Kym
LEMon
Mate, what you say is true, but their are quite a few old timers who you still can absorb alot from. It really depends on what style you prefer and liken to your own.
Really this is no different with watching current boxers. You have talented ones and then you have your alphabet ones.
I won't go into listing names of oldies that are worth learning from, but all I can advise is get as many tapes as you can. Watch them and discover who you like to watch.
It is just unfortunate that in Australia getting good fight tapes is hard, and in general the classic fighters are hard to appreciate due to poor quality tapes and a there lack of in general.
Good luck
Kym
LOL@our best fighters over here bro....
We just seem to lack the athleticism i guess.
ripsnorter- you must have pretty fuckn good technique to say that delahoya and vargas had "piss poor" technique. It easy to watch a fight and pick out the few mistakes those great(both top 12 on pfp listings) boxers made but you watch anybody on tape hearns leanord duran and you can pick something wrong they did.
Camel Killer,
Excellent post. Agreed, people often are quick to over look the importance of a good trainer as well as the differing ring generalship they bring to the ring with their fighters.
Kym
Have you seen ali fight? Poor technique but he had other qualities that made up for it. You can see some old fighters use important strategy, movement and timing. Qualities of fighters (posture, movement, timing, footwork, punch angles) can be learned from watching these fighters.
Ever watch prince nazeem (spelling ?) fight. Always off balance but boy can he whoop some ass!!!
Naz in his earlier fights threw most of his competition of as he threw shots from so many angles. Plus he is gifted with excellent speed and power which adds so much force to his un-expected-or un predictable blows. But have you seen Naz exhibit much of this in many of his recent fights ?
Kym
Naz got a new trainer and coach, thats why he is different...I liked him before he changed his style. Camel killer is the man!! Great post