nowaydo -i am solrac9 -As I understand it , pro wrestling was legit NHB catch matches until they started working matches and adding theatrics.
No it wasn’t NHB. That had rules. No striking. You could win by pinfall or submission. Sometimes, chokes were allowed and sometimes not.
NHB = No Holds Barred . Nothing to do with stricking bruh
Catch wrestling is all about arguing lineage and selling DVDs.
Unfortunately no one has a DVD player anymore.
Sad really.
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nowaydo -Dugs95 -nowaydo -The Closed Guard -Kirik -A guy at Iowa did his doctorate on the evolution of folkstyle wrestling rules. Catch wrestling is wrestling. The rules have constrained it to an extent, but not changed it. Catch wrestling isn't something you can learn in a seminar and have magical submission abilities. It's wrestling. If you wrestle for whatever, five years, you can learn Catch Wrestlng readily. If you learn a bunch of moves and don't wrestle, you have your jimmy in your hand. Focus on wrestling.
But traditional wresting has zero submissions
So there has to be more to it than that, no?
American folk and free wrestling comes from Catchwrestling.
Very similar to Judo and Jujitsu, when Kano create Judo he took out all of the more dangerous techniques, for he wanted it to be introduced in the schools to the very young.
When wrestling was introduced to the Olympics and high schools, they took out the submissions.
Lot more to it, but just use google.
I can’t believe it’s 2018 and someone on a MMA forum has no idea what catchwrestling is.
No need to be rude. I prefer an honest question over a troll or fanboy…
True
But the energy it takes to begin this thread, where you may receive bias, fanboy or hate or uninformed replies, could be used to good “catchwrestling” and get a wider scope of info to make his own decision of what it is.
I apologize for coming off rude, but I’ve been on this forum a long time and in the early days there was a lot of discussion and debate about catchwrestling. I just thought the mystery was over and the newer guys were more informed.
If someone asked me what jiujitsu was id be happy to attempt to explain. I don’t know any catch wrestlers or any schools anywhere in the area.
Listen to the recent Grappling central podcast interview with Jake Shannon and all your questions will be answered
Denis Kelly -Listen to the recent Grappling central podcast interview with Jake Shannon and all your questions will be answered
yes
little bias as he admits, but good podcast
Catch is wrestling with emphasis on bringing the pain
Kirik -A guy at Iowa did his doctorate on the evolution of folkstyle wrestling rules. Catch wrestling is wrestling. The rules have constrained it to an extent, but not changed it. Catch wrestling isn't something you can learn in a seminar and have magical submission abilities. It's wrestling. If you wrestle for whatever, five years, you can learn Catch Wrestlng readily. If you learn a bunch of moves and don't wrestle, you have your jimmy in your hand. Focus on wrestling.
This is accurate.
The hooks are the finishing moves.
For years on this forum a minority of us that learned Catch in the early days from Tony Cecchine would try to explain that the wrestling was the art. That you wrestled from position to position. That you wrestled from hook to hook. WIthout the wrestling it is just a bunch of moves. And it is the wrestling, the mechanics and base that make the hooks work.
e. kaye -Kirik -A guy at Iowa did his doctorate on the evolution of folkstyle wrestling rules. Catch wrestling is wrestling. The rules have constrained it to an extent, but not changed it. Catch wrestling isn't something you can learn in a seminar and have magical submission abilities. It's wrestling. If you wrestle for whatever, five years, you can learn Catch Wrestlng readily. If you learn a bunch of moves and don't wrestle, you have your jimmy in your hand. Focus on wrestling.
This is accurate.
The hooks are the finishing moves.
For years on this forum a minority of us that learned Catch in the early days from Tony Cecchine would try to explain that the wrestling was the art. That you wrestled from position to position. That you wrestled from hook to hook. WIthout the wrestling it is just a bunch of moves. And it is the wrestling, the mechanics and base that make the hooks work.
Thank you.
e. kaye -Kirik -A guy at Iowa did his doctorate on the evolution of folkstyle wrestling rules. Catch wrestling is wrestling. The rules have constrained it to an extent, but not changed it. Catch wrestling isn't something you can learn in a seminar and have magical submission abilities. It's wrestling. If you wrestle for whatever, five years, you can learn Catch Wrestlng readily. If you learn a bunch of moves and don't wrestle, you have your jimmy in your hand. Focus on wrestling.
This is accurate.
The hooks are the finishing moves.
For years on this forum a minority of us that learned Catch in the early days from Tony Cecchine would try to explain that the wrestling was the art. That you wrestled from position to position. That you wrestled from hook to hook. WIthout the wrestling it is just a bunch of moves. And it is the wrestling, the mechanics and base that make the hooks work.
By hook you mean submission?
Watch Sakuraba vs a Gracie and see if you can tell the difference.
BJTT-Frank Rizzo -Watch Sakuraba vs a Gracie and see if you can tell the difference.
Which Gracie? He’s fought them all lol
e. kaye -Kirik -A guy at Iowa did his doctorate on the evolution of folkstyle wrestling rules. Catch wrestling is wrestling. The rules have constrained it to an extent, but not changed it. Catch wrestling isn't something you can learn in a seminar and have magical submission abilities. It's wrestling. If you wrestle for whatever, five years, you can learn Catch Wrestlng readily. If you learn a bunch of moves and don't wrestle, you have your jimmy in your hand. Focus on wrestling.
This is accurate.
The hooks are the finishing moves.
For years on this forum a minority of us that learned Catch in the early days from Tony Cecchine would try to explain that the wrestling was the art. That you wrestled from position to position. That you wrestled from hook to hook. WIthout the wrestling it is just a bunch of moves. And it is the wrestling, the mechanics and base that make the hooks work.
Going back to the early days of NHB/MMA, but I think that is part of the reason that people with wrestling experience could be hell on wheels once learning a few high % submissions and of course how to defend.
Will write more later.
The Closed Guard -Kirik -A guy at Iowa did his doctorate on the evolution of folkstyle wrestling rules. Catch wrestling is wrestling. The rules have constrained it to an extent, but not changed it. Catch wrestling isn't something you can learn in a seminar and have magical submission abilities. It's wrestling. If you wrestle for whatever, five years, you can learn Catch Wrestlng readily. If you learn a bunch of moves and don't wrestle, you have your jimmy in your hand. Focus on wrestling.
But traditional wresting has zero submissions
So there has to be more to it than that, no?
Not really. You just can't tap from them. The "twister" is a wrestling pin.
ttt
Catch wrestling has a rich history. Essentially like any combat sport a lot of it is a rule set that you play to. In CACC you win by pinball or submission. The result is a fluid yet brutal style of grappling.
The problem lies in the fact that it is brutal. It will never be as popular as bjj or even regular wrestling because it's so brutal to train every day.
Extreme tag
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I believe that Catch Wrestling started back in the 19th century, when carnivals used to travel from town to town. One of the attractions was to get a local to challenge the carnival wrestler. If the local lasted a certain amount of time with the carny wrestler, the local would win. The carny wrestler would use hooks or submission holds, in order to stop a local that was winning.
When pro wrestling started to be a show. You still had wrestlers that knew how to wrestle. For example, Ed "Strangler " Lewis taught Lou Thesz the hooks. Wrestlers who knew the hooks of catch wrestling were known as "Hookers". "Shooters" were legit wrestlers, but weren't hookers. "Performers", like today, were and are athletes that became pro wrestlers, but knew nothing about real wrestling. Another legit hooker was Karl Gotch, who was viewed as a wrestling god in Japan, and actually created the shoot wrestling style in Japan that led to modern MMA and the UFC. (Billy Robinson was already mentioned in other posts here.)
ttt