What is catch wrestling?

The Closed Guard -
Kirik -

A guy at Iowa did his doctorate on the evolution of folkstyle wrestling rules. Catch wrestling is wrestling. The rules have constrained it to an extent, but not changed it. Catch wrestling isn't something you can learn in a seminar and have magical submission abilities. It's wrestling. If you wrestle for whatever, five years, you can learn Catch Wrestlng readily. If you learn a bunch of moves and don't wrestle, you have your jimmy in your hand. Focus on wrestling.

But traditional wresting has zero submissions 

So there has to be more to it than that, no?

Not completely true.

You can't win a FS & GR match by submission i.e opponent can't tap to a hold. That doesnt mean there arent any submission holds. There are a bunch of head n arm and leg techniques that can be used to sleep or "submit" opponent. Since theres no tapping in wrestling only way out is getting pinned, sleep or get injured.

Catch wrestling likely adopts certain aspects of wrestling and not others. It's a more specialized training of wrestling.

There was actually a catch wrestling world championship yesterday!

The Closed Guard - 
nowaydo -
The Closed Guard - 
Kirik -

A guy at Iowa did his doctorate on the evolution of folkstyle wrestling rules. Catch wrestling is wrestling. The rules have constrained it to an extent, but not changed it. Catch wrestling isn't something you can learn in a seminar and have magical submission abilities. It's wrestling. If you wrestle for whatever, five years, you can learn Catch Wrestlng readily. If you learn a bunch of moves and don't wrestle, you have your jimmy in your hand. Focus on wrestling.

But traditional wresting has zero submissions 

So there has to be more to it than that, no?

American folk and free wrestling comes from Catchwrestling.

Very similar to Judo and Jujitsu, when Kano create Judo he took out all of the more dangerous techniques, for he wanted it to be introduced in the schools to the very young.

When wrestling was introduced to the Olympics and high schools, they took out the submissions.

Lot more to it, but just use google.

I can’t believe it’s 2018 and someone on a MMA forum has no idea what catchwrestling is.

Catch Wrestling is sort of dead man. Who’s left? Barnett? I just didnt understand if it was jiujitsu with heavy wrestling or what.

sorry Im trying to figure it out

So, you don’t know anything about Catch so made a thread, but a few posts in, all of a sudden you’re an authority?

No, it’s not even close to dead - you are just a bellend whose world is UFC and BJJ and doesn’t know anything outside of it.

These threads are a waste of time and I don’t know why anyone in the know would offer their knowledge or input since ignorant people like you start out with an agenda from the get-go.

Seems these days, everyone is an expert even though they know nothing.

What’s your next thread? “I’ve never been to Germany. TME” and then by post 5 tell everyone how awful Germany is even though you have never been.

Idiocy is the new norm these days. Why not just keep competing at NAGAs and butt flopping your way to aplastic Samurai sword and be in blissful ignorance?

Member Since: 2/9/09

ausgepicht - 
The Closed Guard - 
nowaydo -
The Closed Guard - 
Kirik -

A guy at Iowa did his doctorate on the evolution of folkstyle wrestling rules. Catch wrestling is wrestling. The rules have constrained it to an extent, but not changed it. Catch wrestling isn't something you can learn in a seminar and have magical submission abilities. It's wrestling. If you wrestle for whatever, five years, you can learn Catch Wrestlng readily. If you learn a bunch of moves and don't wrestle, you have your jimmy in your hand. Focus on wrestling.

But traditional wresting has zero submissions 

So there has to be more to it than that, no?

American folk and free wrestling comes from Catchwrestling.

Very similar to Judo and Jujitsu, when Kano create Judo he took out all of the more dangerous techniques, for he wanted it to be introduced in the schools to the very young.

When wrestling was introduced to the Olympics and high schools, they took out the submissions.

Lot more to it, but just use google.

I can’t believe it’s 2018 and someone on a MMA forum has no idea what catchwrestling is.

Catch Wrestling is sort of dead man. Who’s left? Barnett? I just didnt understand if it was jiujitsu with heavy wrestling or what.

sorry Im trying to figure it out

So, you don’t know anything about Catch so made a thread, but a few posts in, all of a sudden you’re an authority?

No, it’s not even close to dead - you are just a bellend whose world is UFC and BJJ and doesn’t know anything outside of it.

These threads are a waste of time and I don’t know why anyone in the know would offer their knowledge or input since ignorant people like you start out with an agenda from the get-go.

Seems these days, everyone is an expert even though they know nothing.

What’s your next thread? “I’ve never been to Germany. TME” and then by post 5 tell everyone how awful Germany is even though you have never been.

Idiocy is the new norm these days. Why not just keep competing at NAGAs and butt flopping your way to aplastic Samurai sword and be in blissful ignorance?

Member Since: 2/9/09

I tried to be nice, ausgepicht.

I guess nice isn’t always the best way.

Thanks.

I still have my Tony C. DVD’s!

The Closed Guard - 
Kirik -

A guy at Iowa did his doctorate on the evolution of folkstyle wrestling rules. Catch wrestling is wrestling. The rules have constrained it to an extent, but not changed it. Catch wrestling isn't something you can learn in a seminar and have magical submission abilities. It's wrestling. If you wrestle for whatever, five years, you can learn Catch Wrestlng readily. If you learn a bunch of moves and don't wrestle, you have your jimmy in your hand. Focus on wrestling.

But traditional wresting has zero submissions 

So there has to be more to it than that, no?

You’ve got it backwards.

Traditional ‘folk’ wrestling styles included submissions, but about a century ago the Olympic styles were created for international competitions and those styles removed the submission aspect from amateur wrestling. Those changes later trickled down to collegiate, high school and youth wrestling. Catch is simply the vestigial remnants of those old folk wrestling styles as preserved by the touring carny wrestlers of the late-19th/early 20th century and later by a select few former students of those carnies who brought the style to professional wrestling, where it found a small, but rabid fanbase, particularly in Japan.

Pwrestlemma - 

I believe that Catch Wrestling started back in the 19th century, when carnivals used to travel from town to town.  One of the attractions was to get a local to challenge the carnival wrestler.  If the local lasted a certain amount of time with the carny wrestler,  the local would win.  The carny wrestler would use hooks or submission holds,  in order to stop a local that was winning. 

When pro wrestling started to be a show.  You still had wrestlers that knew how to wrestle. For example,  Ed "Strangler " Lewis taught Lou Thesz the hooks.  Wrestlers who knew the hooks  of catch wrestling were known as "Hookers". "Shooters" were legit wrestlers,  but weren't hookers. "Performers", like today,  were and are athletes that became pro wrestlers,  but knew nothing about real wrestling.  Another legit hooker was Karl Gotch,  who was viewed as a wrestling god in Japan,  and actually created the shoot wrestling style in Japan that led to modern MMA and the UFC. (Billy Robinson was already mentioned in other posts here.) 

Catch wrestling goes back to the dawn of the sport, back in ancient Greece. Submission holds were always a part of wrestling until the early 20th century and the advent of the watered-down Olympic styles. There are tons of archeological examples of ancient wrestlers using submission holds.

ausgepicht -
The Closed Guard - 
nowaydo -
The Closed Guard - 
Kirik -

A guy at Iowa did his doctorate on the evolution of folkstyle wrestling rules. Catch wrestling is wrestling. The rules have constrained it to an extent, but not changed it. Catch wrestling isn't something you can learn in a seminar and have magical submission abilities. It's wrestling. If you wrestle for whatever, five years, you can learn Catch Wrestlng readily. If you learn a bunch of moves and don't wrestle, you have your jimmy in your hand. Focus on wrestling.

But traditional wresting has zero submissions 

So there has to be more to it than that, no?

American folk and free wrestling comes from Catchwrestling.

Very similar to Judo and Jujitsu, when Kano create Judo he took out all of the more dangerous techniques, for he wanted it to be introduced in the schools to the very young.

When wrestling was introduced to the Olympics and high schools, they took out the submissions.

Lot more to it, but just use google.

I can’t believe it’s 2018 and someone on a MMA forum has no idea what catchwrestling is.

Catch Wrestling is sort of dead man. Who’s left? Barnett? I just didnt understand if it was jiujitsu with heavy wrestling or what.

sorry Im trying to figure it out

So, you don’t know anything about Catch so made a thread, but a few posts in, all of a sudden you’re an authority?

No, it’s not even close to dead - you are just a bellend whose world is UFC and BJJ and doesn’t know anything outside of it.

These threads are a waste of time and I don’t know why anyone in the know would offer their knowledge or input since ignorant people like you start out with an agenda from the get-go.

Seems these days, everyone is an expert even though they know nothing.

What’s your next thread? “I’ve never been to Germany. TME” and then by post 5 tell everyone how awful Germany is even though you have never been.

Idiocy is the new norm these days. Why not just keep competing at NAGAs and butt flopping your way to aplastic Samurai sword and be in blissful ignorance?

Member Since: 2/9/09

Dude whats wrong with you? Are you going through a tough time in your life or something? You seem like you have a lot of built up anger, need to talk to anyone?

The Closed Guard -

How does it differ from freestyle wrestling and jiujitsu? 

What are some common (if any) techniques they use off their back?

I trained luta livre in Rio last year. LL originates from the catch wrestling of the european immigrants. I had a private with Roberto Leitão which is a legendary trainer in LL. His son is an Olympian in wrestling.

I was a bit dissapppinted that modern LL ia basically same as nogi bjj. Lots of techniques from back and guard jump. The important symbolics from wrestling is lost. Zero standup game. :-(

ttt

pretty nice article here the comments are pretty informative too, check out the link to the 14th century fight manual as well.

http://www.thearma.org/pdf/Fight-Earnestly.pdf

its the original wrestling. they took the submissions out when they added it to high schools and thats where folkstyle came from. its been around forever and like people said, wrestlers traveled the carnie circuit challenging local tough guys. maeda, the guy carlos gracie learned bjj from also traveled the carnie circuit and im sure was influenced by the catch wrestlers and added a lot of catch stuff to his judo. 

the problem was a lot of these fights would last over an hour and it became kinda boring so they started having fixed matches to add to the entertainment aspect and that was the birth of professional wrestling. but professional wrestlers still had to know how catch in case someone went off script they could defend themselves and still win.

unfortunately a lot of the old school catch guys didnt really pass it on or travel the world opening up schools like the gracies did when they spread bjj so it kind of died out and nowadays nogi submission grappling has kinda eaten everything up adding the most effective parts of the different styles including catch which we see with the leg locks and some of eddie bravos stuff. neck cranks, toe holds, kimuras, rides, compressions, painful stuff. a good example i guess is josh barnett vs dean lister. 

the problem is theres not much of a community for it.. its easy to say bjj is way better seeing as bjj people dominate adcc, a nogi comp in which cacc guys should dominate out of any. but bjj has an incredibly competitive competion circuit to build up a ton of world class athletes. catch wrestling doesnt have anything even close to build their athletes so unfortunately we dont see them dominate adcc like bjj guys do. japan seems like the only place where it really thrives and obviously its very effective as seen with sakuraba in pride. 

ttt

genuinely never met a catch wrestler and I’ve trained a lot of different places.

There are not many of us.

e. kaye - 

There are not many of us.

Unless you go to Japan. All those old school Japanese pro wrestlers and MMA guys trained in catch wrestling.

Nobody ever met up with Tony at the Tool & Die factory, back in the day?

Pig Bun - Nobody ever met up with Tony at the Tool & Die factory, back in the day?

I did a lot of his seminars and we also flew him in for some private seminars for our school.