What is Faith?


Would some kind blue'er link-ify this for me? This way the pdf can be saved directly.


-Tom Bombadil

Here you go monsignor

Tom's Link


Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1.

After all, this is what god himself has to say on the matter, and who is the christian to argue with his own god?

This has to be the first time that I agree with Machine30. I think hebrews 11:1 is probably the best definition of faith that it is possible to give. Way to go!

Most christians have a definition of faith as "an evidentially based belief".

Most christians want to call faith evidential when speaking to atheists, because even they know that belief based on no evidence is irrational (by definition.) The problem of course is that evidential faith cannot bring a person to god belief, because there is NO evidence. So christians have to accept god using 'belief without proof"

Bludhall, please, please, do me a favor and read the article, please.

It would really mean so much to me if you did, really.


-Tom Bombadil

Bludhall wrote:

"its like when I choose to believe that there is no God at all and we just die and drift off into blackness. I have no proof so i need to use faith."

This is not faith, You have no other reason to believe that anything else happens.

You really read it?


I did Tom. :)

Well, I guess it would be nice /
If I could touch your body /
I know not everybody /
Has got a body like you.

Oh, but I gotta think twice /
Before I give my heart away /
And I know all the games you play /
Because I play them, too.

Oh, but I need some time off from that emotion, /
Time to pick my heart up off the floor. /
And when that love comes down without devotion, /
Well, it takes a strong man baby, but I'm /
Showing you the door,

'Coz I gotta have Faith /
I gotta have... Faith /
Yes, I've gotta have Faith, Faith, Faith /
I gotta have Faith, Faith, Faith.

Baby, I know you're asking me to stay /
Saying please, please, please don't go away /
You say I'm giving you the blues.

Maybe you mean every word you say /
Can't help but think of yesterday /
And another who tied me down to loverboy rules

Before this river becomes an ocean /
Before you throw my heart back on the floor /
Oh baby, I reconsider my foolish notion /
Well, I need someone to hold me, /
But I'll wait for something more.

Coz I gotta have Faith... /
(repeat chorus)

Before this river /
Becomes an ocean /
Before you throw my heart back on the floor /
(I've just got to have faith) /
I've reconsidered my foolish notion

Yeah, I need someone to hold me, /
But I'll wait for something more....


Coz I gotta have Faith /
(final chorus)

----------------George Michael Lyrics

It's official, Donny Troy is an agent of evil!


LOL@ DonnaTroy :)

Bludhall, You are ignorant,sorry.

I can prove there is no life after death.

If there was life after death, then it would not be "death". It would still be life.

Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.

Prove that the brain is not material and will not cease after death, and you might have a good question.

I want this thread archived after I post the following:

I agree with Bludhall!!!!

bludhall wrote:

--"machine.. atheism is as much faith as any religion,.."--

bludhall, I'd enjoy seeing you support that assumption :-)

I would describe myself as A-theist, but that doesn't conscribe me to any creed. Nor does it dictate I must have faith in anything or hold any particular belief. Nor does it tell you particularly what I do believe in.

Whereas Christianity does all these things, and it includes as a central tenet maintaining "faith" in something for which no objective evidence can be supplied.

Christianity also exhalts the use of faith over doubt, and actively works to fortify it's adherence against doubt. Whereas in contrast I find doubt (skepticism) a valuable part of my outlook, and it is encouraged among the atheists I know.

I also hold beliefs provisionally and hold no "faith" that my beliefs are true beyond all doubt.

How are you defining "faith" such that it may be applied equivalently to me and Christians?


"Unshakable faith is that, which can stand face to face with reason, in all epochs of humanity." Kardec


This is fairly simple.Asking someone to prove that there is no life after death is a logical fallacy, because you can't prove a negative. You can't prove that there isn't a god. You also can't prove that an invisible pink unicorn didn't create the universe 15 minutes ago, complete with false memories and evidence for a longer existence.

Saying it takes faith to be an atheist is a BS line and he knows it. He's simply trying a desperate plea to make his faith not seem so stupid.

Why would someone with your intellect bother with this elementary argument???

"Nor does it tell you particularly what I do believe in. "

You believe there is no God, right?


"because you can't prove a negative"

It´s besides the point I know, but I could prove that there isn´t a hairy monster under my bed right now (proven a negative).