What is the most effective art when in close...

contact with people such as being a bouncer, police officer (patting suspects down, dealing with drunks, etc)? I think Judo would be most effective since you try to get in close to people when attempting a throw and the fact that 90% of the population hasn't experienced being thrown or hates being thrown. I think Karate is a close second (vis-a-vis Lyoto Machida) in regards to strikes, sweeps and tripping people but the later 2 are also taught in Judo. Opinions?

gotta go w/ muay thai!

 I'm no expert but I'd have to guess BJJ, Judo and MT, in no particular order


end of thread

Boxing and wrestling would also work out well.

Hooks and uppercuts are good for close in and wrestling is self-explanatory.

I think MT is better than boxing for close range since MT actually deals with the clinch situation rather than breaking it up. Greco Roman wrestling and Judo would be great as well.


lol @ wrist locks on some dude pumped up on dope and adrenalin

The only person I can see pulling off an Aikido joint-lock is a Judo guy or a wrestler.


Wing Chun.

I train Judo with a Police Officer who once told me that Judo throws, takedowns, locks etc 'don't leave marks' compared to other forms martial arts and boxing...

depends on the type of combat specifically

you mentioned bouncers and police. I dont know the rules of contact for the police but ive been in Bar/Nightclub security for over 20 years all over the US and in Europe. Ill tell you first hand that any striking art IS NOT what you want. Matter of fact, when a guy comes in bragging about how he boxed/kickboxed I usually just throw his app right in the garbage

Ive trained everything over the last 25 years and wrestling/BJJ is the ONLY thing that holds water for me when I hire new guys.

Not that having to know anything really matters... your best weapon bouncing is your personality and being a damn good talker! Some of the BEST bouncers Ive ever known were little guys with great personalities.

greco wrestling, judo and MT.

"In close" means the tie up, in a bouncer, police officer situation. The guy has or is trying to put his hands on you, either a push or a collar grab, or an attempted head lock. The 'defense' of such moves would be any art that has effective grip fighting, tie-ups and close grappling, which would be greco Roman, Judo, and some BJJ.

Though performing a strike would not normally be indicated, you still would want to be familiar with defending strikes and elbow shots. So MT, dirty boxing and regular boxing would be arts you'd want to have practiced.

I'd say it might be a good idea to go through a course like they have for police officers, such as ISR Matrix founded by Luis Guiterrez of the Straight Blast Gym. They'd have a good understanding of what subjects might do from that distance and you could tailor your responses from Greco, Judo and BJJ, learn to cover up and evade until you could get control of the situation.

The best plan for bouncers and police is not to have to employ moves as an individual, but use a 2-on-1 approach. So you'd want to train in teams. One guy would get to each side, or one to the front quarter and one behind, for example, then the subject could be controlled by a belt grip or by a two arms against one on each side. A key principle would be to avoid close up confrontation until you were sure you had the control. This means separating the rowdy perp, palming your pepper spray (if allowed), and getting your team member in position.

Another reason to emphasize two-on-one control is the distinct possibility the perp could have a weapon. You'd want to keep an eye on and keep control of his hands. This makes it a good idea, though perhaps impractical to have metal detectors at clubs in high risk areas.

To prevent reprisals, the best plan is not to harm the perp, especially in a club situation. Just get two-on-one and belt control and walk him out of the club. For police you'd practice getting the cuffs on resisting perps in a variety of situations, including those with noise and low light. A key, though would always be to have a good base art (judo, MT, greco, bjj, etc.) upon which to structure your situational moves.

NorthFromHere - greco wrestling, judo and MT.

 In that order.

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Krav Maga

Greco Roman wrestling mixed with Muay Thai is excellent for the clinch or close distance. 90% of street fights hit the ground at one point or another, thats why its really important to have solid wrestling fundementals (I recommend Greco Roman).

 Joe Son Do.


Back off Spaghetti boy! you're out of line pie zan. I'm telling ya, you've been watching too many Segal movies