What do wrestlers think about the strengths/weaknesses/crosstraining in judo? How are the wrestling and judo cultures different? Which is more systematic in its teachings, and which is easier to learn?
I don't think I can really speak to a lot of your questions, but I can at least tell you this...
I have a lot of respect for judo. I confess that I don't know much about it, but what I have been exposed to is definitely good stuff! If I ever get the time and opportunity to train seriously in judo, I'll jump at the chance.
By the way, as far as this question goes: "Which is more systematic in its teachings, and which is easier to learn?"
My guess is that 95% of that probably depends on your coach/instructor. I'm sure that in both sports, you've got some bad ones, some good ones, and a few exceptional ones.
"How are the wrestling and judo cultures different?"
I'm not sure, because I've only dealt with judo players on "my turf" (i.e. - a wrestling environment). So I'm not sure what "their turf" is really like.
FatBudda,
Wrestling and Judo are very similar, however there are alot of differences.
I incorporate my wrestling background when I play judo, and vice versa. One of the primary differnces besides the rules are the postures (stance). A wrestler is bent over, hands forward and constantly changing levels. A judokas' posture for the most part is upright.
In judo a bent over posture is a no no. You lend yourself to alot of sacrafice throws.
In wrestling if you have a straight posture (standing upright) you open yourself up for singles and doubles.
When I wrestle I can for the most part stand straight up to give my opponet a false sense of security allowing me to do a judo throw. More than likley he has not been exposed to it.
When I play judo I may bend over again giving my opponet a false sense of security.....now I have a wrestling take down.
Fireman carries are big in wrestling as well as judo. In judo the throw is called Kata Guruma.
We have a full-time wrestler and part-time Judoka (during off-season) in our club who is a white belt. Because he has been wrestling since 5 (now 13), he manhandles the others in our age group and actually took 1st place in his first shiai (Judo tournament) after only 2 months of Judo.
Although he was tossed a couple of times for wazari (not full Judo point), he was able to take down opponents using basic outside leg sweeps and pin them for 25 seconds for the wins. It's incredible to watch him NOT land on his back no matter how well the throw is done on him! I'm the only one in the same age group who could throw AND pin him. He jokes that I'm strong for a Judoka.
We also have a green belt in our club who wrestles. Our sensei, for whatever reason keeps telling him NOT to use too much strength, blah, blah (Sensei is very traditional) He's 17 and has beaten blue and purple belts in shiai. We suspect he'll be promoted to several belts higher next week.
I think the wrestling conditioning is 10X better than our Judo conditioning. There are only 3 Judokas in our club (out of 21 kids) who take conditioning and strength training (the white belt full-time wrestler, the green belt, and me). All the wrestlers go to conditioning and strength training! No matter the emphasis we get on technique, strength is important in Judo competition along with going full force with speed the entire match.
thanks chip, famliman, and Atreides!
Atreides
We have a full-time wrestler and part-time Judoka (during off-season) in our club who is a white belt. Because he has been wrestling since 5 (now 13), he manhandles the others in our age group and actually took 1st place in his first shiai (Judo tournament) after only 2 months of Judo.
A judoka who has several years experience in wrestling will more than likley beat beginners...not because he's so good in judo, but because he has developed body awareness whereas the others (those who have not participated in similar sports) haven't. The higher he gets the gap closes. He won't do that for the most part with experienced judokas. The same applies for those who have trained in judo for a number of years and transitions or cross trains in wrestling.
Don't give him a false sense of security. Winning a Shiai in the novice divison is not a real big deal.
Make sure he gets his basics down. The higher he gets the harder, faster, bigger the throws come.
ttt
I confess that I don't know much about it, but what I have been exposed to is definitely good stuff!Thanks for the compliment Chip!I think wrestlers can gain alot from judo cross training and vice versa. (I came from a wrestling background)cultures? Judo is usually more formal and being Japanese in origin, absolutley and completely very systematic. There is a set cirriculum that you must learn to move forward in judo. you may have your favorite techniques, but you must learn them all.Easier?... hmmm I think people pick up wrestling a little faster because they are more familiar with the concept of the pin, where as in judo you have to consider the throw, the pin and the submission as equals in winning a match. (of course both have a point system)
Judo is very formal - we bow all the time: entering and leaving the mat, to the sensei before and after training, etc.
Our sensei also teaches/talks a lot about respect, good citizenship, cooperation, responsibility, etc. These are great breaks during intense practice sessions but a little boring when done before actual practice.
The Judo atmosphere and attitude are the opposite of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Both have positives and negatives.
Nakamura (spelling?) was a several time Judo champion that turned to HS wrestling in Ohio. Even his first year he was good. By the time he was a senior, he was a state champ. He went on to wrestle in college. At several pionts in the season, he was ranked #1. He was always ranked in the top5. The NCAA Chamionship eluded him, although he was one fanastic wrestler. In HS, he would shoot in a double, back out and deliver an awsome judo throw/trip. I still have some of his matches on tape.
I like Judo and think it's a great base for MMA. The main thing that doesn't aways help in MMA, is that a lot of Judo throws can end up in a bad position once it hits the ground. In Judo, the main object is to have your openent's back hit the mat first. If he ends up rolling you over, you still get the points even though (if it were a wrestling match), you would have just gotten taken down. Nakamura was great in understanding this and used a lot of modifide Judo throws that gave him takedowns in wreslting.
His potential in MMA and submission grappling is great if he were to ever go that route.
Ive come to the conclusion that Greco Roman wrestling and Judo have similar principles in the off balancing and throwing. Freestyle wrestling is based off of level changes penetration and lifting for the takedowns. I think you can train in all of them and benefite as long as you keep the principles that the styles are based off of in mind and not just the techniques involved. Just my worthless personal thoughts.
"Just my worthless personal thoughts."
Jasper, I think you need a hug.
I started judo, simply because I try to emulate the best. When I noticed that some of the best wrestlers, were also doing judo, and whipping ass, I figured that was what I needed to be doing. Some great wrestlers with judo backgrounds: Steve Mocco, Yoshi Nakamura, Travis Lee, Rob Koll, Mike VanArsdale.
My coach is a 3rd degree black belt in Judo and stresses the importance of throws in freestyle wrestling.Throws in freestyle are getting quite rare, and at the right time, can be quite easy to hit.
Judo is fun as hell! Any wrestler would enjoy this sport. How can you not like to throw people?
most wrestlers really like judo and often do judo when done competing in wrestling..they do well in competition and train very hard..
of course, i have a bias for wrestlers though :)