is that he kept fighting, and in fact went on to win the latter half of the fight...but he tapped to strikes from Jon Jones.
How much of a killer is Jon Jones??
Valid point.
Jones mixed his strikes up with punches and knees to the body.
Shoguns chin has never been in question. He proved that tonight.
Shogun felt the horrible sting of shame that came from that Jones fight and vowed to never tap ever again, imo.
J-Tee - Shogun felt the horrible sting of shame that came from that Jones fight and vowed to never tap ever again, imo.
Don't know if you're serious, but that did occur to me.
True but im pretty disappointed that Shogun took them so quick and so many in the first place.
He is a better striker than that?
Or what it a styles thing? He took no real clean hurting shots from Machida but got caught right away by Dan. They are diff fighters but Shogun looked pretty sloppy. Yes, his heart is sick.
orcus -J-Tee - Shogun felt the horrible sting of shame that came from that Jones fight and vowed to never tap ever again, imo.
Don't know if you're serious, but that did occur to me.
yep i was serious
J-Tee -I don't think it's that much of a stretch to believe. This might actually be true.orcus -J-Tee - Shogun felt the horrible sting of shame that came from that Jones fight and vowed to never tap ever again, imo.
Don't know if you're serious, but that did occur to me.
yep i was serious
I do believe Jones has the most prolific overall offense of any fighter.
J-Tee - Shogun felt the horrible sting of shame that came from that Jones fight and vowed to never tap ever again, imo.
...But this could well be true. I think there was a couple points in this fight where Shogun was very close to just turtling up and saying "enough", but something inside of him barely gave him enough to keep fighting.
Could well have been a pride issue, where he decided that never again would he mentally surrender.
Wasa-B - Or what it a styles thing? He took no real clean hurting shots from Machida but got caught right away by Dan. They are diff fighters but Shogun looked pretty sloppy. Yes, his heart is sick.
Hendo hits harder than Machida (though Machida hits hard himself, but Hendo is on another level). Also people seem to overlook the extremely high frequency with which Hendo lands that right hand on everybody.
Hendo is a better striker than people think. Think him and Machida is a 50/50 fight. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see Hendo outstrike Machida either - when it comes to "striking" people underrate the durability factor, and Hendo might be the most durable factor ever. Which makes it tough to really outstrike him, in terms of damage caused.
This was a different Shogun in my opinion. I know people are tired of the injury excuse but he looked flat out bad in the Jones fight and was gasping for breath in the second, he fought a hard 5 with Henderson despite taking what seemed to be bigger shots, and he took them consistently. I'm not saying he'd beat Jones in a rematch but I don't think he'd get tko'd again.
Shogun wins a rematch with Jones
DaemonDragon -
Hendo is a better striker than people think. Think him and Machida is a 50/50 fight. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see Hendo outstrike Machida either - when it comes to "striking" people underrate the durability factor, and Hendo might be the most durable factor ever. Which makes it tough to really outstrike him, in terms of damage caused.
Its kinda like the Chuck, Gomi factor: they hit like beasts and could take the big shots. Yeah, durability is a huge factor, agreed.
I do think Machida's conservative and defensive style would be a harder challenge for Dan.
Shogun beats Rampage then Machida. Rampage beats Chuck. Chuck beats Wand. Rampage beats Dan. Wand beat Dan, Dan came back to beat Wand. Dan beats Shogun.
If Dan can catch Machida, he is god.
Wasa-B - Its kinda like the Chuck, Gomi factor: they hit like beasts and could take the big shots. Yeah, durability is a huge factor, agreed.
Yes, it's one of those things - people are overlooking how many shots landed Shogun landed those first couple rounds. I mean Hendo just took them and walked through them, and "outstruck" Shogun handily.
Yet I wouldn't be shocked at all if some of those same exact shots that Hendo walked through, would have dropped Machida badly and let to a TKO finish for Shogun.
Hendo's durability makes it very tough to truly outstrike him. It can be done - especially if you are named Anderson Silva - but I don't think it is an easy task, even for elite strikers like Shogun and Machida.
DaemonDragon -Wasa-B - Its kinda like the Chuck, Gomi factor: they hit like beasts and could take the big shots. Yeah, durability is a huge factor, agreed.
Yes, it's one of those things - people are overlooking how many shots landed Shogun landed those first couple rounds. I mean Hendo just took them and walked through them, and "outstruck" Shogun handily.
Yet I wouldn't be shocked at all if some of those same exact shots that Hendo walked through, would have dropped Machida badly and let to a TKO finish for Shogun.
Hendo's durability makes it very tough to truly outstrike him. It can be done - especially if you are named Anderson Silva - but I don't think it is an easy task, even for elite strikers like Shogun and Machida.
Rogerio and Misaki also did as well. Even Franklin didnt get caught like Shogun. Busta was handily outboxing Dan for most of the fight until he got dropped in the end. That outcome was still controversial.
The difference is Jon Jones poured it on without stopping. The pace he was going overwhelmed Shogun
If Hendo had the same gas tank, he would have finished RUA
I don't know if Henderson can catch Machida with that right hand but if he does it will definately put Machida in trouble. It puts EVERYONE in trouble.
Or maybe Shogun just wasn't his usual self against JBJ?
Wasa-B - Rogerio and Misaki also did as well. Even Franklin didnt get caught like Shogun. Busta was handily outboxing Dan for most of the fight until he got dropped in the end. That outcome was still controversial.
Yes Franklin did a good job oustriking Hendo, but I don't think you can use the Misaki, Busta and especially Rogerio fights as good examples here. Hendo was clearly not the striker then that he is today.
It was around the time of the Wand rematch that Hendo became the striker he is now.
No question, the frequency with which he "catches" people nowawadys is pretty freakin' crazy. It wasn't like that back in the days of the Rogerio/Misaki/Busta fights. Definitely not the same Hendo. Franklin fight though, that's a good example of someone picking modern Hendo apart on the feet, Rich did a great job there. Whether Machida could replicate that, or whether Hendo would eventually land and finish via brutality - I don't know.
jude099 - jones cracked rua with one of the hardest liver shots i've ever seen, IMO that melted him and he legitimately thought he was going to die.
Yes and actually I think the knee on the ground that immediately preceeded the liver shot was even worse. Shogun's body was punished brutally by those consecutive shots.
rockwell - Or maybe Shogun just wasn't his usual self against JBJ?
Think it was like Shogun said, that knee early changed things. Plus Jones is a pretty bad matchup for Shogun.
I think Shogun would very likely be a lot more competitive in a rematch with Jones, but as a Shogun fan I for sure don't want to see one. Think Jones would beat him down again, just not quite as one-sided.
Lets not forgot the knee Jones caught Shogun with within the first few seconds of the fight. A good shot like that and you are not yourself.