TheKidAintMine - "Another might be that they stifled the market by allowing for only one outlet."
There are plenty of other MMA promotions around. Bellator, WSOF, plenty of options for fans out there.
"Why is it that a fighter can't ascend rankings, and then promote himself?"
This has to do with MMA being a niche sport and not that popular amongst casual sports fans. Casual sports fans know the UFC brand. Most don't even know what MMA stands for. If a fighter leaves the UFC either because his contract expires or is cut, he or she can certainly start their promotion and promote his/her own fights. The UFC is just one promotion in the sport of MMA.
"Response--UFC refuses to recognize outside rankings,"
I'm fine with UFC only recognizing their own rankings, just I'm fine with Bellator only recognizing their own rankings. There are promotional rankings. It just happens that the UFC is the best and biggest promotion out there.
"abused (for years) any media who considered any fighters not in the UFC world class,"
The media will be just fine. They can take care of themselves. Plenty of sport personalities abuse the media.
"and requires exclusivity to Zuffa and a host of other terms which are dicated to even enter the "tournament." "
Pro boxers are also exclusive to one promoter.
No, actually boxers aren't always exclusive to one promoter--namely, title fights and contender matches.
Titles are up for purse bids--open to the highest bidder.
Fighters can promote themselves, and then compete for those titles.
Because rankings are not merely "promotional" as you say--fighters can and do compete against boxers promoted by other promoters.
It is not atypical to see a boxing event with 4 differerent promoters promoting the event.
Macedawgg -
TheKidAintMine - "Another might be that they stifled the market by allowing for only one outlet."
There are plenty of other MMA promotions around. Bellator, WSOF, plenty of options for fans out there.
"Why is it that a fighter can't ascend rankings, and then promote himself?"
This has to do with MMA being a niche sport and not that popular amongst casual sports fans. Casual sports fans know the UFC brand. Most don't even know what MMA stands for. If a fighter leaves the UFC either because his contract expires or is cut, he or she can certainly start their promotion and promote his/her own fights. The UFC is just one promotion in the sport of MMA.
"Response--UFC refuses to recognize outside rankings,"
I'm fine with UFC only recognizing their own rankings, just I'm fine with Bellator only recognizing their own rankings. There are promotional rankings. It just happens that the UFC is the best and biggest promotion out there.
"abused (for years) any media who considered any fighters not in the UFC world class,"
The media will be just fine. They can take care of themselves. Plenty of sport personalities abuse the media.
"and requires exclusivity to Zuffa and a host of other terms which are dicated to even enter the "tournament." "
Pro boxers are also exclusive to one promoter.
No, actually boxers aren't always exclusive to one promoter--namely, title fights and contender matches.
Titles are up for purse bids--open to the highest bidder.
Fighters can promote themselves, and then compete for those titles.
Because rankings are not merely "promotional" as you say--fighters can and do compete against boxers promoted by other promoters.
It is not atypical to see a boxing event with 4 differerent promoters promoting the event.
So some boxers are exclusive to one promoter and others aren't? Please expand on this. This is all good stuff.
"Titles are up for purse bids--open to the highest bidder"
What does this mean?
And yes, I understand that there's a distinction between boxing promoters and boxing associations that put out the titles.
Just because the promotion isn't paying out the benefit, doesn't mean it isn't there. Who's worth more- a Harvard Law graduate or a Michigan Law graduate, generally speaking? You can argue the semantics of it (and I'm sure you will), but everyone knows the answer. Harvard doesn't pay out this financial benefit, but you can be dang sure it exists.
"Because rankings are not merely "promotional" as you say--fighters can and do compete against boxers promoted by other promoters.
It is not atypical to see a boxing event with 4 differerent promoters promoting the event."
Right now, this would never happen in MMA and I attribute this to the fact that the current business models of boxing and MMA being so different.
In boxing, fans pay to see the fighters. They don't care who promotes the fight and to a certain degree, if the names are big enough, they don't even care if there's a title at stake. I've never personally heard of anyone paying for a PPV because Top Rank was promoting the fight.
Whereas in MMA, fans pay to see the UFC brand - the promoter. Most casual sports fans don't really know any MMA fighters by name. Casual fans order the UFC brand, and outside of a handful of fighters, don't pay particular attention to the fighters.
Edit: Response to c hurrle
Ah--I'll agree with you on that--but it isn't semantic.
It isn't anything the UFC has done to provide that increase in value--it is the fact that the athletes are seen as "major league" that confers the benefit.
TheKidAintMine - "Because rankings are not merely "promotional" as you say--fighters can and do compete against boxers promoted by other promoters.
It is not atypical to see a boxing event with 4 differerent promoters promoting the event."
Right now, this would never happen in MMA and I attribute this to the fact that the current business models of boxing and MMA being so different.
In boxing, fans pay to see the fighters. They don't care who promotes the fight and to a certain degree, if the names are big enough, they don't even care if there's a title at stake. I've never personally heard of anyone paying for a PPV because Top Rank was promoting the fight.
Whereas in MMA, fans pay to see the UFC brand - the promoter. Most casual sports fans don't really know any MMA fighters by name. Casual fans order the UFC brand, and outside of a handful of fighters, don't pay particular attention to the fighters.
Does this seem like a "normal" phenomenon to you?
If you were my promoter, and the public knew you and not me, didn't you fail miserably at your promotional responsibility?
Macedawg, thanks for the espn link. That was a good read.
Macedawgg - TheKidAintMine - "Because rankings are not merely "promotional" as you say--fighters can and do compete against boxers promoted by other promoters.
It is not atypical to see a boxing event with 4 differerent promoters promoting the event."
Right now, this would never happen in MMA and I attribute this to the fact that the current business models of boxing and MMA being so different.
In boxing, fans pay to see the fighters. They don't care who promotes the fight and to a certain degree, if the names are big enough, they don't even care if there's a title at stake. I've never personally heard of anyone paying for a PPV because Top Rank was promoting the fight.
Whereas in MMA, fans pay to see the UFC brand - the promoter. Most casual sports fans don't really know any MMA fighters by name. Casual fans order the UFC brand, and outside of a handful of fighters, don't pay particular attention to the fighters.
Does this seem like a "normal" phenomenon to you?
If you were my promoter, and the public knew you and not me, didn't you fail miserably at your promotional responsibility?
Yeah, I agree with that.
But I think alot of it has to do with the casual sports fan not understanding and not really caring too much about MMA. Most people still think of MMA as 2 sweaty dudes groping each other on the ground.
Also, MMA has only really been in the mainstream spotline for like 8 years. Things only started really taking off with Bonnar-Griffin. Boxing, on the other hand, has been in the mainstream conscience for more than a century.
Macedawgg -
Edit: Response to c hurrle
Ah--I'll agree with you on that--but it isn't semantic.
It isn't anything the UFC has done to provide that increase in value--it is the fact that the athletes are seen as "major league" that confers the benefit.
The UFC's ascendance to be viewed as the top promotion was done by design. This isn't about chance. The purchase of WFA. The purchase of Pride. The purchase of Strikeforce. The purchase of WEC. The sanctions against Affliction. The bidding wars with Bellator. The development of the Ultimate Fighter. All of these were done by very smart business people with the design of developing a market and establishing dominance in that market (or straining the finances of competitors). The UFC (as you pointed out so well) has put their brand before their fighters' brands. All of this is by design to make the UFC the top dog. To say "It isn't anything the UFC has done to provide that increase in value" is insane. Zuffa has been outsmarting or outspending everyone for years.
I agree with everything you write--except this:
"To say "It isn't anything the UFC has done to provide that increase in value" is insane."
Overall compensation has been drastically suppressed by Zuffa's actions--not increased. Further, the development of the market as a whole has been intentionally stunted--not augmented by zuffa's actions.
I've always argued (and will again) that if the UFC's compensation is so bad, it should be able to be easily toppled by a promotion that comes in and "does it right". We haven't seen that. I think this is because Zuffa is paying what the market will bear or more.
Nobody, except for those who buy the DVDs or attend live shows, pay to see undercard fights. Those fighters get paid less than I believe their level of effort deserves. Zuffa doesn't pay for the level of effort to get to the "big show", though. They pay for what sells tickets.
Good stuff c hurrle and Kid--
c hurrle - Macedawgg -
Edit: Response to c hurrle
Ah--I'll agree with you on that--but it isn't semantic.
It isn't anything the UFC has done to provide that increase in value--it is the fact that the athletes are seen as "major league" that confers the benefit.
The UFC's ascendance to be viewed as the top promotion was done by design. This isn't about chance. The purchase of WFA. The purchase of Pride. The purchase of Strikeforce. The purchase of WEC. The sanctions against Affliction. The bidding wars with Bellator. The development of the Ultimate Fighter. All of these were done by very smart business people with the design of developing a market and establishing dominance in that market (or straining the finances of competitors). The UFC (as you pointed out so well) has put their brand before their fighters' brands. All of this is by design to make the UFC the top dog. To say "It isn't anything the UFC has done to provide that increase in value" is insane. Zuffa has been outsmarting or outspending everyone for years.
WFA and Pride were done, dead in the water. SF was up for sale because the backers did not want to invest any more money, SF was losing more. WEC was the only company that was doing fine at the time of the purchase.
The UFC picks up the scraps when others can't make it work. Everyone sang the praises of Affliction because they were paying fighters what they were worth, but they lost millions per show.
As far as what the UFC does, they provide televised events that are watched by millions of people. Sponsors are about the eyeballs. Some sponsorships include commercials, but more are about wearing the logo on UFC broadcasts. The UFC is very much responsible for fighters getting more from sponsors.
Take 2 identical fighters, give one a WSOF bout (on TV) and the other a UFC bout (on TV). The UFC guy will be able to command more from sponsors as the UFC shows draw more viewers.