What's up John Paul II (Kolbe)

What's up with this:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/1/11/104058.shtml

A"t this point, the Holy Father took hold of his Rosary and said: "Here is the remedy against the evil! Pray, pray and ask for nothing else. Put everything in the hands of the Mother of God!" "

Pray and ask for nothing else?!?! Put everything in the hands of the Mother of God?!!?!? I put everything in the hands of Jesus. Man.

The article you linked goes to an article about Mel Gibson meeting a nun. I don't see the quote there.

It's in there...go into the article...

While it's not my cup of tea, in the context of the story he is talking regarding a prophecy given by Mary to children.

Im much more displeased with the Koran kissing incident.

Yeah, I was not happy about him kissing the Koran.

I am pleased to see ecumenicism, but doing that while most muslims think he's the devil and too many muslim preachers publicly curse christians as infidels smacked of dhimmitude.

Sorry, rooster, I missed the quote.

I assume that quote cannot be taken out of the context of the visions of Mary to which he was referring.

Mary is the mother of god-- Jesus was god. The Marionism of the catholic church is one of the things that attracts me to catholcism...if I ever become a christian again, I would want that aspect of the feminine divine (she is not considered divine, I just view her as the aspect of the feminine divine within christianity). Protestantism and Judaism and Islam are too male centered for their own good.

I was looking in the bookstore at a book that had collected the various messages of the major Mary visitations over the past hundred years or so. It didn't focus on the people who had the visions (just gave basic biographical backround and historical context) but rather focused on what she told them. It was VERY interesting and somewhat surprising.

While she made reference to being "The Mother of the Word", and acknowleged Jesus as the son of god, on several occassions the message seemed purposelfully non-christian centric (if I am putting that right). She said that everyone is a child of god, making specific reference to muslims and jews as well as christians. She also always implored people to pray, to say prayers. The Rosary (where catholics say a mixture of a Our Fathers with Hail Marys is an interesting ritual that is often not a petitioning prayer, but are simply offered to god. She said that it made more of a difference than people realize.

I assume it was that message to which the pope was referring.

penuma,

In Judaism, the Shekhina, a term describing the manifestation of God's presence on earth, or as christians call it, the holy spirit, is always defined as feminine.

pneuma, Mary is the mother of Jesus who was God and man. She is mother of the man, Christ Jesus. God has no mother. To say God has a mother is illogical and in conflict with His eternality. The early catholic church fought a big battle over this and many Christians did not beieve it appropriate or biblical to apply that title to her.

"In Judaism, the Shekhina, a term describing the manifestation of God's presence on earth, or as christians call it, the holy spirit, is always defined as feminine."

The Holy Spirit in christianity is usually considered to be feminine. But that's of a very different nature than having overwhelmingly male prophets or a male savior.

bludhall, I give you an 8 off the balance beams for your mental gyrations. Try again.

"Mary is the mother of Jesus who was God and man. She is mother of the man, Christ Jesus."

Was Jesus only human when in the womb or was he divine from the first moment?

I am not stating she is the creator of an uncreated creator, the unmoved mover. That misses the point. As christians believe jesus was divine from the start, and mary is the mother of jesus, she is the mother of god in the sense that she carried, gave birth to and raised Jesus.

pneuma: Was Jesus only human when in the womb or was he divine from the first moment?

me: He was divine prior to His robing of flesh. He was divine before He became the incarnation. From the "1st moment" or from the time His humanity was conceived, He was still God. However, Mary did not conceive, or birth...God. She birthed man.

pneuma: I am not stating she is the creator of an uncreated creator, the unmoved mover. That misses the point.

me: that's entirely the point. The point is that the title "Mother of God" asserts just that. God has a specific definition. Part of that definition is that God is eternal. To say Mary is the Mother of the uncreated creator, the unmoved mover, the first cause is impossible. She birthed humanity.

pneuma: as christians believe jesus was divine from the start, and mary is the mother of jesus, she is the mother of god in the sense that she carried, gave birth to and raised Jesus.

me: it would be appropriate, or biblical to call her the Mother of jesus, the Mother of the Son of God etc. However, language is very importatn, especially in the bible. To say Mary is the Mother of God is incorrect,.

as much as I disagree with the current pope on a plethora of issues theyre probably hasnt been another pope who has done more for peace between the religions then him

if Jesus was God, and you say he was. Who was Jesus mother?

It is a totally valid title that asserts both Jesus diety and humanity.

the rev

Rev: if Jesus was God, and you say he was. Who was Jesus' mother?

me: as I say?!? The bible says that Jesus is "God manifest in the flesh". Jesus mother is Mary. She is the mother of His "flesh".

There seems to be such a fundamental misunderstanding of the incarnation. God and man.

Peter for instance emphasizes the humanity of Jesus in His great sermon on Pentecost:

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God...

Peter is not dismissing the deity of Jesus, he's however focusing specfically on His humanity. Who He was as a man.

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Note, that Paul says that the Son was made of a woman...

There is absolutely nothing, nothing about the deity of Christ that was made. What was "made" of a woman is what Peter is discussing...the humanity of the incarnation. The bible has no problem speaking of Jesus as man, as God and sometimes as both...sometimes in the same verse or the same story.

The title "Mother of God" refers specifically and only as being mother to deity. That, is an impossibility, and frankly a title that Mary herself would have never embraced, as a God fearing Jew.

Mary was mother of Jesus, the Son of God. She was mother to the man. She had no part in the being mother to the divine, the diety, the Spirit, that was in Christ.

Therefore, I contest your assertion that it's a totally valid title (from a biblical perspective) and that it asserts deity and humanity. I affirm that it speaks only of deity (mother of God as if...).

But hey, feel free to agree to disagree...

What do you call the president's mother?
Mary is called the mother of God, because she was the mother of one who was God!! Not because she was the mother of God!!

I call the Presidents mother...Barbara Bush.

latinsoy: Mary is called the mother of God, because she was the mother of one who was God!! Not because she was the mother of God!!

me: lol, Mary is called the mother of God...not because she was the mother of God!?!?!

"On the Koran issue...if most Muslims don't like the Pope, how do you think he should try to rectify that? By respecting their holy book? Or continuing the condemnation of Islam? Which one do you think is going to win Muslim hearts and minds?"

Kissing a book which denies Jesus Christ was even crucified is bound to attract criticism. Your idea of appeasement is similar to the UFC catering to athletic commissions and regulatory bodies that dont even support or like the UFC.

"I believe in Jesus and don't think he was crucified. The important thing is believing in Jesus, not the insignificant details."

??? Please elaborate.

When Jesus asked if he could go out and play with his friends, who did he ask?

His mom

So Mary = Jesus mom

Jesus = God

Mary = God's mom

Quite simple. She was not the mother of his divinity, as divinity has not creator. But Jesus was born, he actually was carried in a womb and came into the world by way of this womb. And was raised by this woman. The bible says He subjected Himself to his parents.

Now, Rooster, I am not sure of what you believe here, so please do not take offense. Was the man Jesus always divine? Or did God choose an already existing man, and "inhabit" him? This is the only way I can see what you are saying make sense.

the rev

I Choke You or Bludhall,please explain this statement.How is the crucifixtion of Christ insignificant?

"I believe in Jesus and don't think that he was crucified.The important thing is believing in Jesus,not the insignificant details."