When should a fight be stopped?

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                                When should a fight be stopped?

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FRAT

"It all comes down to you having compassion for the fighter and enough backbone to stand up to the people who will say you screwed the fighter," said McCarthy. "... No one deserves the right to finish a fight. They earn it through their actions in being competitive. A ref needs to understand the difference between fighting and surviving. Sometimes we need to protect fighters from themselves as much as their opponent."

This.  All day.

KingofBJJ -
Kirik - 

FRAT


What does that mean?

"Feeling really awkward today."

Sorry to hear that, Kirik.
Hope you feel more comfortable soon. Phone Post

KingofBJJ -
Kirik - 


FRAT



What does that mean?

Fun Read, A Triumph Phone Post 3.0

And the word of the day today is "arguably".

As one of the officials who has stopped fights, I can tell you safety is the primary issue.

Is the fighter responding to the referees orders to improve his position or fight back? Is the ref asking these questions? Merely defending yourself by turtling or putting your hands in front of your face is not active defense.

As a doc, I am constantly assessing cumulative damage. Not just the damage that is occurring at that moment. Imagine the energy bar in Mortal Kombat ( I am keeping a virtual one for each of the fighters based on damage) So when a moment occurs when my knowledge is required I can assess the fighter based not only on his current condition but the information I have collected over the entire fight.

There have been a few times when I would have liked to stop a fight. I've put my gloves on, walked up the steps and stood on the apron. Fortunately, the refs have intervened shortly thereafter.

It takes a well trained ref. One who is intimately knowledgeable about the fighters, their condition and communicating well with his team both ringside docs and commission (inspectors).

As docs our job is to assess whether the fighter can safely continue. The question is always if I let this fight continue is their a reasonable possibility that the fighter will sustain permanent injury. If the answer is yes then the fight should stop.

Jack Brown - 
KingofBJJ -
Kirik - 

FRAT


What does that mean?

"Feeling really awkward today."

Sorry to hear that, Kirik.
Hope you feel more comfortable soon. Phone Post



Just kidding, buddy.



It's actually a Latin acronym, Fortis Readius Anus Toiletrius.  It translates to English as "For Reading While Defecating."   



I know, it's so complicated around here.

Kirik -


FRAT

Hahaha. VU! Phone Post 3.0

According to the og fights should stop before they even begin. The 2nd option is, upon first knockdown Phone Post

Good post, gilbertfan. In particular, I don't think that the importance of having a good referee who is looking out for the safety of the fighters and knows enough about combat sports to make quick and accurate assessments can be overstated. The ref is in a much better position than I am most of the time to see how a fighter is doing. I would not work ringside if I had doubts about the ref Phone Post 3.0

KingofBJJ - 
Kirik - 


FRAT



What does that mean?



Favorite Read of All Time

TTT.

....... Life is a balance

Very thought provoking read!

 

Great job Kirik. Very well researched and put together.

A good referee and a good cage side physician are key in these situations. The coaches in the corner are troubled with bias, emotion and personal feelings. It's tough for them to put that aside and make a solid judgement; hence, my statement about the ref and doc.

rockethands33 - Great job Kirik. Very well researched and put together.

A good referee and a good cage side physician are key in these situations. The coaches in the corner are troubled with bias, emotion and personal feelings. It's tough for them to put that aside and make a solid judgement; hence, my statement about the ref and doc.

I did enjoy it as well. Phone Post

Jack Brown - 
rockethands33 - Great job Kirik. Very well researched and put together.

A good referee and a good cage side physician are key in these situations. The coaches in the corner are troubled with bias, emotion and personal feelings. It's tough for them to put that aside and make a solid judgement; hence, my statement about the ref and doc.
I did enjoy it as well. <img alt="Phone Post" border="0" src="/images/phone/droid.png" style="vertical-align:middle;" /></blockquote>

 

Yup. The corner should only be the safety net in case the first two layers fail. 

Great read!

 

Good read.

Many folks still think Ivan Drago said it best which is why you won't see fights stopped.

With that said, last weekend a boxing bout was stopped due to a cut and Rosado will never get another shot at Quillin.

The judges had it way wrong for the hometown fighter as it was a very close fight and Rosado had Quillin hurt.

His championship dreams are gone.

No way Quillin's people will take a rematch due to risk versus reward so in his case you could feel pain over the stoppage.

It's a fine line.

JDS had zero chance from the 3rd on so that was different.

But it was a title fight and JDS has one shot power so that likely weighed into the decision to let it continue.

There will never be a right decision in stopping a fight early.

There will always be chance for wrong should you not do so. Phone Post

rockethands33 - Great job Kirik. Very well researched and put together.

A good referee and a good cage side physician are key in these situations. The coaches in the corner are troubled with bias, emotion and personal feelings. It's tough for them to put that aside and make a solid judgement; hence, my statement about the ref and doc.


Thank you for the kind words man!

"If a fighter is not competitive, and is receiving endless head trauma, then that fighter is not fulfilling their responsibility to themselves, to the fans, and to the sport, and the fight can be stopped".

Unfortunately, as the rule are written, this is not enforceable.

The criteria is intelligent defense, which for me is pretty easy to enforce. If a fighter is able to face his opponent and move freely, or if he has some control over his opponents movements, I'll let a fight go; if a fighter covers up and turns away, or when a fighter is immobilized by his opponents actions, I'll think about stopping. There are other criteria, but those are my primary guides - can a fighter engage his opponent and in some way affect his opponents actions?.

For example, in one show, a fighter shot in, took a single leg and held on. His opponent landed several undefended blow, but as long as the fighter held the leg, I had to give him the benefit of the doubt that he thought he could finish the takedown, because he was engaged and had some control. 

But how do you judge competitive on that? He wasn't finishing the takedown - that's not "competitive". (Ultimately, he let go the leg and tapped; I was ready to stop as soon as he dropped his hands and covered up).

In a later fight, a fighter got put down, on his hands and knees. His opponent got his legs in and started punching. The fighter on the bottom put his head down and covered up, so he wasn't taking damage, but he was turned away - not engaging his opponent - and not able to control his opponent. He wasn't taking any significant damage, but neither was he defending himself, so after about 20 secs or so (and several warnings), I stopped the fight. Because, from where I'm at, I can't tell what's going on in his brain, I can only judge actions.

Specific, identifiable actions. 

Competitive is much more subjective - how do you write the rule to define it?

Because ultimately that's what the referee is there for - to enforce the rules of the game. As written, with as little subjective opinion involved as possible. 

Perhaps there needs to be another official involved, because as a referee, I have enough to watch, without having to guage "competitiveness". I'm too busy looking for fouls or other violations.

There are reasons most other sports have multiple referees. In judo, we have three.