Is this where we heap praise onto the guy for 1 win, and ignore how everyone else at the weight beat the dog fuck out of him? Cute.
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Yes,because we are not ranking him as a welterweight.
So then you have Matt Serra on the list of 155 GOATs for KOing GSP at 170
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Youāre right actually guys like Cerrone or Miller have had way tougher careers but if youāre at no point number 1 itās a tough sell for a goat list.
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He beat Hughes twice. He also drew with Jon Fitch, who was the second best WW of his era and took a round from GSP.
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I donāt care what their head to head record is, I cannot bring myself to say Edgar was a better fighter than BJ.
Just as I cannot bring myself to say Hallman, despite the head to head record, is a better fighter than Hughes.
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Edgar was most definitely a better fighter than BJ. He would have beaten the guys BJ beat, and beat guys/lost close decisions to guys that BJ would have gotten ate up by.
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As a fanboy Iād always keep BJ at number one. Logically, Iād say heās a close second to Khabib. They had the same number of defenses but with Khabib being undefeated and now retired, that sits better with me. I donāt know of any other lightweight in UFC history that has more than three title defenses.
If I may raise a good point:
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Fighters from the old guard (BJ, Sherk, etc) were fighting at a time when there were way fewer elite guys in their division. It was much easier to prove yourself as the best by winning a handful of fights. This also means that divisions were super top-heavy and you have guys like BJ who were head and shoulders above the rest then a guy like Frankie comes in a squashes your plans. Then you spend the rest of your career trying to catch that lightning again instead of evolving and the game passes you by.
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Fighters from the new(er) guard (Dustin, Tony, RDA, etc) have been fighting in a time where we have official rankings and have many more fighters competing in the UFC. We have an official ranking system now. This means a guy can fight in the division for years winning and losing, even become a champion, and still not even come close to fighting everyone in the top 10.
This is one reason among others that it is very difficult to compare the legacy of old era vs new era. Itās much easier to get passed over now or get lost in the shuffle, especially at 155. Weāve seen so many win streaks that never resulted in a title shot at that weight class (Miller, Diaz, Guida, etc). I think in order to rank these guys, champions with the most defenses have to go first. Then level of dominance, resume, etcā¦
Didnāt realize there were still delusional BJ fans around who think heās one of the best all-time LWs. BJ was awesome for the time but the sport changes, get over it. Lebron beats MJ too.
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In GOAT lists, itās probably a good idea to consider if a candidate was ahead of his time.
And for a while BJ Penn was. And a lot of other people being considered werenāt.
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Being ahead of your time is a good reason to be placed on a list of āgreatest of your timeā, not so much a list of āgreatest of ALL timeā
Gentleman Jim Corbett was the first guy to inject actual training regiments and technique into boxing. You canāt get much more ahead of your time than inventing the template for every combat sport for the next 150 years. I still donāt see anyone putting him on lists next to Ali, Tyson, Lewis, Holmes, etc.
BJ 12 holy shit lol no respect for the prodigy!
Thatās hilarious.
With lightweight, weāre talking a 10-15 year timeframe hereā¦ Not more than a century.
But instead of just ahead of your time, maybe I should have specified how. I was referring to the blending of certain techniques at a higher level than his contemporaries.
By your logic, Pythagoras and Euclid can go fuck themselves.
BJs longest win streak ever was 4, and he did it twice (Iāll explain). First 4 fight streak, 0 wins at Lightweight. Next, he won 4 in a row at 155 with the loss to GSP sandwiched in the middle. So if that was āprime motivated BJā who everyone thinks is GOAT, he beat Stevenson, Sherk, Florian, and Diego. He is 1-9-1 since the GOAT 155 omg so good 0-27 for takedowns blah blah win over Sanchez.
He is 1 million miles behind Khabib, Eddie Alvarez, Poirier, and other 155 greats. BJ Penn is not in the discussion. At no point in history was he āahead of his timeā for putting together a 4 fight streak.
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Thatās not what I said.
I said in terms of blending techniques he was ahead. And for the record, I never said, nor think, he is close to Khabib. Falsely attributing claims is the calling card of the lost.
Yeah its not like he also beat Sherk who had challenged for the WW title, Serra who won the WW title from GSP, Fitch at WW in most peopleās eyes, beat Rodrigo Gracie at MW (who had just beat Sakurai), Renzo Gracie at WW and gave Machida a hell of a fight at HW. Oh yeah, almost forgot, he also almost beat GSP in their first fight. Its just one win people heap praise on him for.
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People forget, BJ beat the Shooto champ in 11 seconds just six months into his MMA career. He almost beat the UFC LW champ (lost a MD) just two months later, eight months into his pro MMA career. It would be just 16 months into his MMA career that Penn beat the man who would go on to beat GSP for the the WW title years later.
Except Lebron might stub his pinky toe and not show up to play at all.
Dustin is a top 10 of all time. It is very hard to rate as mentioned before. He is consistent and improved over the years.
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Midget with t-rex arms.
BJ looked like shit in that fight.
http://www.mmadecisions.com/decision/2345/Jon-Fitch-vs-B.J.-Penn
MEDIA SCORES
FightMetric.com 29-27 Fitch
MMAJunkie.com 29-28 Fitch
Jordan Breen
Sherdog.com 29-28 Fitch
TJ DeSantis
Sherdog.com 29-28 Fitch
Ray Hui
MMAFighting.com 29-28 Fitch
Mike Whitman
Sherdog.com 29-29 DRAW
MMAWeekly.com 28-29 Penn
Ahh yes, the legendary MMA star Rodrigo Gracie, who weāre always talking about with great praise. Not a day goes by without the mention of his nameā¦which one is he again? That reminds me, Joey Beltran is the GOAT heavyweight. did you see his victory against the phenomenal Rolles Gracie? He has GRACIE in his NAME. That makes him amazing!!!
Renzo was 1-5 in the previous 6 years. And the 1 win was against a japanese pro wrestler who was forced to do MMA by Inoki. Thatās impressive to you, eh?
If by āalmost beatā you mean āclearly lost the fightā, okay? Congrats on being a lazy fatboy frontrunner and only having enough gas for 1 good round.
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