Most of the TUF noobs on here won't know what I'm talking but most people believe that BJJ is the be all and end all of grappling, this is simply not true, in fact the art of catch as catch can precedes BJJ by almost 40 years and a majority of the moves in BJJ seemed to be mirrored by earlier vairations in catch as catch can. In fact during Mitsuyo Maeda (teacher of the gracies for the TUF crowd) vist to America in the late 1800s its is very possible that he was exposed to art of catch as catch can since great champions like Frank Gotch were selling out venues wrestling in the Catch as Catch can style.
It is also know that Maeda visted England in 1907 where catch as catch can was fourishing and where Billy Riley would set up his famous snake pit catch wrestling school years later.
taking this into account it is very possible that the real legacy of submission fighting and the root of BJJ itself began with the Catch as Catch can style.
A little off topic,but Gotch was NOT a force in wrestling in the 1800s.
ProMagnus - taking this into account it is very possible that the real legacy of submission fighting and the root of BJJ itself began with the Catch as Catch can style.
No shit?
BTW,though...
American professional wrestling(late 1800-early 1900s)and catch-as-catch-can wrestling were not the same thing.
American pro wrestling was 2 out of 3 falls and didnt involve submissions.You had to pin your opponent.
True catch wrestling(like jujitsu)involved submissions.
There is a big difference between a guy like Frank Gotch(who would outwrestle a guy like Billy Robinson)
And a guy like Billy Robinson(who could submit a guy like Frank Gotch)
folkwrestling 1800 B.C
/thread
Where are you guys getting your history from?
For starters Maeda wrestled literally hundreds of cacc matches on at least 4 different continents. Some were works, some were shoots. He lost several of these, not just the two everybody knows about and talks about because they are in his biography.
Frank Gotch trained submissions 1 hour every single day with Martin Burns on top of his other 6 or 7 hours of cardio and wrestling.
Nearly every top pro of the early era (1900 - 1930) was skilled to some degree in submission wrestling and yes it was cacc.
Before that the dominate style was collar & Elbow and most of those guys like Ed Decker and the cross-over star Evan Lewis (the original strangler) were also somewhat skilled in submission. I have documentation of Evan Lewis beating a Japanese jiu-jitsu guy with a heel-hook, wasn't called that but that's what it was.
Neither are infallible systems. Combine the pair, learn and have fun with it.
It doesn't have to be one or the other..
Since you guys seem to be kind of new to this histroy did you know that an aging Wladek Zbyszko grappled to a draw with a young Helio Gracie while wearing a gi for the first time in his life? Wladek was the not so great brother of the great Stanislaus Zbyszko.
Fred "Grubby" Grubmier (carnival shooter legend) once humiliated Wladek, in Wladek's prime.
Rules make style, that is simple as that.
A sub is a sub, there is only some differences in 'mind set' like in cacc we dont pull guard on purpose, we are top game specialists. We train the guard too, but not as often as bjjm but we train more take down than the avarage bjj club ect...
Please guys, read that article made by my friend and coach Kris Iatskevich.
http://damagecontrolmma.com/modern-catch-as-catch-can-written-by-kris-iatskevich/
Whatever. Good luck finding quality places in this country to traain CACC.
Find a good GJJ/BJJ school and go from there.
SKARHEAD - Whatever. Good luck finding quality places in this country to traain CACC.
Find a good GJJ/BJJ school and go from there.
Sadly, you are right. There is not munch good/legit cacc school in north america.
wladek was known for not being worth a shit in actual wrestling but still managed to maul helio while wearing a gi for the first time.
^^ they are about even^^^
scuffler - Since you guys seem to be kind of new to this histroy did you know that an aging Wladek Zbyszko grappled to a draw with a young Helio Gracie while wearing a gi for the first time in his life? Wladek was the not so great brother of the great Stanislaus Zbyszko.
Fred "Grubby" Grubmier (carnival shooter legend) once humiliated Wladek, in Wladek's prime.
would Stanislaus have any relations with Larry Zbyszko from the old AWA org by any chance...? is this a family line is basically what i am asking.
along with pro wrestling...Larry was versed in karate i believe it was .
fiercedragon - CATCH>bjj
Obviously since all the Catch guys are winning ADCC every year...
Catch isn't a hair on the nutsack of Bjj... Catch guys go back to your hole.
joshjitsu -fiercedragon - CATCH>bjj
Obviously since all the Catch guys are winning ADCC every year...
Catch isn't a hair on the nutsack of Bjj... Catch guys go back to your hole.
yea prett y much...i just played devils advocate n called it even but surely thereis NO indication of catch > bjj anywhere that i know of lol
Bobby Lupo - var so = new SWFObject("http://www.youtube.com/v/QucOSaoTnDk&hl=en&fs=1&", "postVideo-27922480-Flash", "425", "355", "9.0.28", "##000"); so.addParam("allowScriptAccess", "samedomain"); so.addParam("allowNetworking", "internal"); so.addParam("wmode", "transparent"); so.write("postVideo-27922480");supersaiyan - along with pro wrestling...Larry was versed in karate i believe it was .
since 1968
nice clip thanks bobby
bobby
-
Larry comes off kinda seemingly cocky in a sense but its notreal at the same time he actually makes some good points and is pretty honest in his demeanor and what he is saying
the whole sticks and gun not being a "weapon" and being more "extension" of yourself and that the "human body" is the weapon actually is GOLDEN TRUTH.
interesting also how he was saying how pretty much the wrestlers were getting BIGGER and stronger witha fear factor persona ex. (Road Warriors) he had to somewhat evolve his approach to those type of guys by utilizing karate with the wrestling to try to be on par with super FREAKs like Animal n Hawk
i kinda chuckled wiht the whole " i got my bb in 76 now everyone wannts to do it - i'm a ninja blahblahlbah" LOL
supersaiyan -scuffler - Since you guys seem to be kind of new to this histroy did you know that an aging Wladek Zbyszko grappled to a draw with a young Helio Gracie while wearing a gi for the first time in his life? Wladek was the not so great brother of the great Stanislaus Zbyszko.
Fred "Grubby" Grubmier (carnival shooter legend) once humiliated Wladek, in Wladek's prime.
would Stanislaus have any relations with Larry Zbyszko from the old AWA org by any chance...? is this a family line is basically what i am asking.
No, Larry was of no relation. Larry took the name Zbyszko as a tribute to Stan, just like Karl Gotch did with Frank Gotch.