I'm not sure about legal issues in Ca as the TID is
reativley new. I'm sure it falls under some other
heading other than TID. I have to check it out.
As far as light courses go...
There are many that are for very specific purposes.
What I teach in a basic course is:
* Understanding the light and TID.
*Threat Recognition - Using the light to evaluate your
surroundings. (Most people think they've got this one
but there usually very far off.)
* Mechanics - Grip, stance, body/light alignment,
verbal commands, movement.
* Blinding
* Strikes
* Escape
That's a basic idea of what should be covered.
There is more but that's the start.
Demi
What's your opinion on the Pelican M6? I just bought one, pretty similar to the surefire I played with.
I'm still gonna get a surefire for my Benelli, but This Pelican was a great value (49 bucks, including 10 Litheum batteries) Check ebay for great deals.peace
I'm not familiar with the Pelican M6 but I;looked it
up. It seems to be a fine light. I don't know about it
durability or focus, but it seems ok.
Demi
well fuck me runnin'.
jonwell was wrong about you - he said you knew everything!!haha
I was probly very very drunk at the time.
But hey, Demi know's a whole hell of a lot more than we do, so.
From what I know Pelican makes a good product for the money. here hopefully is a link with a couple decent comments regarding the M6... and the guys on that forum really know their lightsfwiw, cheers
I lurk at www.candlepowerforums.com. I'm a geek. They have an ArcFlashight forum, IMO the handiest of all. They're just a little less "tactical/cop/ninja" than the SureFires and it's clones.
What I've learned over the...1) MAG-Lights are bottom of the barrel unless you get a high-tech replacement bulb, which are expensive. They of coarse can also be used as a club. 2) ArcFlashlites are handy tools, kinda like a multi-tool or SAK. 3) The Surefires and it's clones are always hailed as defensive tools. Kinda like a large "tactical folder", a firearm, colapsable batton, or OC spray. Lots of other good info over there too...
Just my current opinion...
Random question...I happened to be watching that stupid Celebrities Uncensored Show (where paparazzi's harrass celebs) and was thinking...would a Surefire, pointed directly into the camera lense obscure the pictures/video being taken?
If so, seems like another group to market them to.
Not a good idea. The light is so powerful it will
blind the camera and the operator and could be
considered an assault.
If someone fell or walked into something or dropped
their camera there could be trouble (lawsuits).
Demi
I was playing with my new Pelican M6 and blinded myself, lol. I couldn't see straight for about an hour.
I think I'll keep it.
Didn;t think of that Demi--have never used one so I didn;t realize they were THAT bright...gonna have to go out shopping I think.
The funniest thing is mine will be left in a drawer, unless I buy a couple more for my cars. It's too fucking bright to use on my security gigs.
What's the point of a super bright light then?
I keep it w/my Glock. Don't wanna miss in the dark.peace
I would not say that a Surefire shined into a camera would blind anyone. Yeah it will make them squint. Yeah it will make them turn their head away.
You aren't blinding anyone with it and in NO WAY is getting a light shined in your eyes an assault. Could you trip and fall and get sued? Yes. Just like a thousand other things you could do that are not an assault. In fact, seems like a perfectly reasonable response to some of the harassment that celebrities face from the paparazzi - better than punching them out, or fleeing and creating a full on car chase, which seem to be the popular responses now.
IIRC in a recent in-service use of force training we had the issue has already been addressed in one court somewhere (as relates to law enforcement) and was summarily dismissed. I don't know if they even called it a use of force or not... frankly it is at about the level of "officer presence" on the continuum and should be treated as such in any responsible training program.
I have used Surefire weapon lights and hand held lights for a number of years on patrol and in tactical operations. They are magnificent tools. They blow away the previous lights I was carrying in terms of brightness and in terms of durability (drop enough lights on concrete or other hard surfaces and see what happens - no issue at all with the Surefires).
I think the whole "force option" thing is a little hyperbolic. They are not incapacitating. They are a distraction. They provide portable concealment and "tactical invisibility" in that you can address a threat or potential threat with the light in the eyes and move to another spot after the eyes close and the head turns. You can strobe the light at different heights/locations and present a very disorienting "light picture" to a bad guy that keeps him from knowing where you are exactly while forcing him to close his eyes or whatnot. Powerful tool in conjunction with conventional hand to hand or shooting tactics.
They have the advantage of being a modern day te-no-uchi/koppo whatever you want to call it.
In and of themselves, they will not stop a fight against a truly committed adversary and should not be viewed as such.
I just picked up an Inova X5. Nice light. I'll pick up a second one just to keep in the truck.
what does it compare to, steve?
here is a link that shows the X5. The two good things about them is they have a really looong runtime on the CR123A batteries. I'm thinking around 20 hrs or so. The other good thing is that they are built like a tank and can really take a beating. On the downside, if you consider it one, they are more like a floodlight and illuminate a wide area over a short space. They really don't work well for applications where you need a lot of throw. I occasionally use mine when I do building inspections with the state industrial hygenist... it works really well when you don't need the eyefrying brightness of a surefire or similar light. On the inspections the X5 is also backed up by a surefire E2e for those times when you really need to see far back into nooks and crannies of dark spaces. If I could do it all over, I'd probably just go with the A2 because it essentially does what both of the aforementioned lights do in one package... cheers
"""they will not stop a fight against a truly
committed adversary and should not be viewed as
such"""
That statement is a little behind the times. The "new"
SURERFIRE lights are bad to the bone in "blinding
capability" and as an "Impact weapnn".
A 65 lumens light is a momentary distractor/blinder
but a 125 lumens is a whole other game of distraction/
blinding. Same light, different lamp.
GG&G in AZ have created the Tactical Impact device for
these lights as well. These are nightmarish
attachments which become an integral part of the
lights. If you get a solid shot from one of these
you're going down.
And someone will just say "I hit him with my little
flashlight".
I'm going to be doing a webpage on these lights and
devices together this week and we are in production on
a new DVD on them as well.
Demi
Demi-
I'm sorry, but your last post sounds like the ads for Surefire! Don't sacrifice judgement for marketing.
Ive done it many times for real - against many types of bad guys. The Surefire's are great tools, bright lignts, with a lot of applications - they are indeed "force options," but at a very low level - distraction more than anything - and as a last ditch impact weapon.
Try an experiment: take your light (120 lumens) into the darkest room in your house. Shine the light directly into your eyes...
...now, tell me that if an attacker did that to you when threatening your or your family's safety that you would be incapacitated. You wouldn't be. Don't assume a threat will be. I can tell you from field experience that many won't.
"If you get a solid shot from one of these you're going down."
This is a dangerous assumption that NO ONE should make, least of all a trainer.
Many HANDGUN ROUNDS, even head hits, do not put people down. Tell me again that hitting the guy with a flashlight will? I have some experience, unfortunately, with a few full on, bone breaking face hits with a much heavier light that DID NOTHING to stop the guy, other than make him turn away and give me a few moments advantage.
Of course the meth the guy had on board helped him - but then, who are we preparing to encounter anyway? The angry neighbor who will give up with a few stern words and light flashed in his face, or the committed, violent, drug-assisted assailant trying to take you out to jack your stuff?