In traditional martial arts, the norm is usually that you must hold at least a 3rd Dan to give anyone else a 1st Dan. Does this hold true in BJJ? If not, what's the rule?
I think any black belt, and with proper etiquette (ie; your teacher(s) give you permission to promote)
I think it is random man. My instructor says that in our organization under Pedro Sauer, you have to be at least a 3rd degree black belt in order to promote someone to blackbelt, but I don't think this holds true for every organization or individual. I think it just depends on who you are asking.
there is no unified codebook on this. my instructor only holds a second degree and he has a black belt under him.
Depends on how you want your black belt recognized. If you want an "official" blackbelt in BJJ then you need at least 3 members of the federation to sign off on it I believe.
Personally, I think any BJJ Blackbelt should be able to promote another guy to blackbelt legitimately. Remember a blackbelt in BJJ has on average 10 years of training behind him. A 1st degree blackbelt in a traditional art could have as little as 2 years.
I agree 100% with jmarcel - a blackbelt in BJJ is not a normal "blackbelt" ranking, it is more like a "grandmaster" ranking. You can't compare, say a blackbelt in judo which might take 1-4 years to get, with a blackbelt in brazilian jiu-jitsu which usually takes about 10 years. I think it would be kind of ridiculous that guys with the knowledge, skill, and teaching ability like Mario Sperry, Minotauro, Saulo Riberio, Nino, etc. could not give out blackbelts because they are not 3rd degrees.
FatBuddha1 is correct, as well as I believe that Calbert is correct. It depends on the initial branch of the Gracie family, the system they employ, and the individual instructor doing the promoting. Being from the Carlson Jr. & SR. portion of the family myself, I have seen first degrees like myself (though I have not personally) promote to faxia preta and the rank be universally recognized. I believe that Rickson International has to be promoted by Rickson directly or at least someone directly beneath him, at last this is what I have heard before. While I have seen but not researched a long distance correspondance program through others not requiring physical presence during training at all for promotion (although this seems a bit shady to me personally and I would question the legitemacy of the ranking if given in this manner).
You have to look at the art as the intricate science that it is. A black belt is like a PhD, especially involving BJJ. It says that the time has been put in, dues have been paid, and that one is able to use this knowledge in an educated and professional manner in competition, in the school, or in the street with exact precision. Additional degrees are desired and sought after (at least in my case) but are in reality an afterthought. Again referring to doctors, it is like a neurosurgeon learning to perform a vasectomy, he has seen it done before, learned the processes involved and could probably have done it since graduating med school, but just needed the plaque in the office so as not to scare away referrals.
No doubt that a BJJ black belt is pretty damn heavy.
"If you want an "official" blackbelt in BJJ then you need at least 3 members of the federation to sign off on it I believe."
Interesting. So are all 3 members black belts, too? Do THEY have to hold a certain degree?
"While I have seen but not researched a long distance correspondance program through others not requiring physical presence during training at all for promotion (although this seems a bit shady to me personally and I would question the legitemacy of the ranking if given in this manner)."
I've heard of this sort of thing in connection to some pretty obvious scams, i.e., the "instructor" was not a legit BJJ man at all. Are there actually legit qualified BJJ faxia pretas doing this too?
damn double posting
I just can't imagine that this would work without actually rolling. How can you learn to feel your opponent's pressure or learn to find the proper leverage? What about abnormal range of motion or physical differences from student to student and instructor to instructor that are factored into the entire process of promotion? This is not taekwondo where you can learn a kata or something from a book and be able to compete with their blackbelts in a preset group of moves. It requires a highly definened sense of touch and a sesitivity to different pressures and CONSTANT evolution. this can only be done by interaction with others who are knowledgeable in the art. If it is a legit deal, I wish it was something I could have done years ago to spare myself the humiliation of ever being tapped by...anyone I guess?!
Anyone can give you a Black Belt. You though are the only one who can earn it. And when you put eough into it you will know when you earned it.
Joe has the perfect summation.
No he doesn't! I was asking a legit technical question, and he kills my thread with some platitude!
He is correct, though. Your mom can give you a black belt and say "look, honey. Now you have a black belt too!" but is it the same as 10-12 years of studying this style and becoming so proficient that you can actually choose what your opponent does, let alone what you will do to him/her when they do it? No. I think this is what Joe was alluding to.
Faxiamonkey, are you in Brazil or NA? Just curious. How long did it take you to reach black belt?
If you are looking for some king of directory I suggest bjj.org. It seems to be pretty complete, at least to my knowledge. I do know of about 3 exclusions to the faixa preta(black) list as well as some on the Faixa marrom (brown) and faixa roxa(purple) from both mine an another neighboring school, but I do not know how often it is updated and I haven';t been there in a long time
I am in North america and it took about 9+ years with some previous experience. I earned it in 1998 under Carlson jr. in Chicago. I now live in Tennessee.
My instructor isn't on there and he was promoted by the president of the cbjj federation.
Andrew Bryce is a second degree and he is teaching in Brazil, but he is not there either. It is mostly accurate though.