Who can verify Helio's story?

Are there any old fuckers around who can possibly verify Helio's claim that he learned jiu-jitsu by watching the lessons of Carlos instead of actively participating in them?

Recently some people have been claiming that this would be impossible to do.

Did Carlos leave any writings on this topic? Any old students of Carlos that would still be alive? (I realize they would have to be in at least there 80s probably)


Did he mean by watching and later practicing, almost like watching an instructional?

The Gracies make many outlandish claims, so I don't know why you would be surprised by yet another? The Brazilains that I have become friends with that have nothing to do with BJJ don't even know who the hell the Gracies are. They aren't half as famous as they claim they were or are or ever have been. They laid claim to 65 years of being undefeated, we only later found out it wasn't true Helio lost a couple of times.

All TMA's need an origins story. Helio wants bjj to be a TMA so we get these stories.

thanks guys but what is important to me is if there are any old students of Carlos that can verify Helio's story?

with all the news paper clipping from the 50's which i seen full page stories on the old man ,alot of brazil should be aware of him

12 is correct!

12 - thanks for your e-mail by the way before I went out to the Gracie Academy - I didn't see you there (maybe I have you confused with someone else?!) and since my family was out there that weekend I had very little time on my hands. I actually can't find the e-mail with your contact info! (I'm at abood23@hotmail.com). I learned a lot from Ryron and Rener the short time I was there - those guys are unbelievable! Thanks again, and hopefully I will take a longer trip out there soon,
- FB

Well it's funny because a lot of people from Brazil don't know the Gracies now maybe there is some secret plan to lie about it, but why would so many non-practicing brazilians say they have never heard of the Gracies? I have many conversations with non bjj Brazilians and when you talk about the Gracies they had no idea what I was talking about!

By the way Helio is not Pele though he would have you believe it. They also want you to believe Rickson is 400 plus and Zero losses etc.

Because not everyone in a country is into sports. There are people in the UK who barely know who David Beckham is and he is one of the worlds most recognised sporting icons. Speak to a rugby and cricket fan and there is a good chance they know very little about him. They deliberately distance themselves from a sport that they consider working class and thuggish. Same happened in Brasil with BJJ.

God, there's people in the states who haven't heard of the Kennedy family (sp?)


The difference is Beckham is world known. Gracie isn't even as Brazilain famous as led to believe.

I learned how to fuck by watching pornos. When I finally had a chance to get a piece of ass I realized I was too weak and frail to do it like I saw on the pornos so I modified it and changed the leverage points. Now I fuck better than porn stars cuz they use too much strength. But I only fuck to procreate.

Quite funny, RP!

In Rio alot of people know who the Gracies are, Sao Paulo a few know, the rest of the country wouldn't know who they are!

If Helio says he learned by watching Carlos why doubt him? He can do the moves now cant he? I think he knows how he was taught. Maybe Count Komas ghost taught him.


To be clear I am not doubting Helio, the whole point of this thread was to see if there was any way to confirm the story so we could put speculation to rest that such a story didn't happen exactly that way.


Believe me, I knew you didn't doubt the story. I'm also sure you believe the story that Helio tells about how a thug pulled a gun on him and had it pointed at his chest. Helio then grabbed the guy buy his collars and choked him unconcious before the guy ever had the chance to pull the trigger.

Rickson is not 400 plus wins with zero losses unless he is counting his grade school figths.

You will never find anyone other than someone who is close to the Gracies to confirm any of these myths, because that is exactly why they are myths!

MarsMan would know if alot of people in brazil know who Helio is.