Whos braver..Soldier vs. MMA

Underground
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Ok, so what, I'm about to post a banal question on here to be discussed; it's better than some of the scatalogical threads that I see on here. With that said, I pose queery of who's braver/ mentally tougher? A soldier, MMA fighter, or a person doing time in prison?

I'll put this in a pros and cons format to make it harder for you trolls to, um, troll on. Also, I'm only counting soldiers who are placed into active combat,prisoners doing time at a medium security or above, and MMA'ers who've fought NHB(not crappy Pancrase) in this poll.

Cons:1st.. Crappy hand-to-hand. Period. Everyone knows that most basic infantry men couldn't kick Stephen Hawkin's ass because of the crappy martial technique taught by most Army and Marine instructors. I'll even go as far as to even include elite teams such as the ever popular SEALS. Now, I never claimed to be the greatest kung-fu master on earth, but while I was stationed in San Diego, I was able to regularly spar and train with the SEALS in Coronado. After the first 3 sessions, I thanked goodness that they were so good at sneaking up on people, otherwise they'd never sell another video game. Even at Tony Galinod's school, we had 2 guys in from SEAL Team 3 come in, and we took turns throwing them around. It's like they had excellent cardio, never quit, but had nothing more to go with it. So, thats that.

2nd Con...Most who join up are young as hell. When I went through boot, they called me "Papa Smurf" and I was only 26. So, the real world experiences are not there.

On to the pros(if I left any cons out, feel free to comment)....

Pro 1: When in a combat situation, our soldiers are taught so thoroughly that they always seem to knuckle up. Regardless of how stupid the stupidest person in the squad is, they always seem to pull their job off in the correct manner under crazy stressful conditions.

Pro2: Theres few people, when being shot at, would have the nerve to keep pressing forward. I was fortunate (or un) enough to go to Tikrit, and it was no Disneyland, well, I did thought I saw Alladin a few times, but no, it sucked ass. Bullets coming at you makes you want crap in the form of a balloon animal, but you have to keep going. For that, this section earns a pro and a half.

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PT.2 The MMA'er....

Ok, we got the stuff for the soldiers (I'm sure someone's gonna be pissed). Now on to us cage dancers...

Con 1: A lot of us are tomato cans, and we only fight people at a certain level our who careers because we're either afraid of real competition, or we just have no real drive. Now, I'm not going to say whether or not I'm in this catagory, because although I've never turned down a fight with anyone on any level, sometimes my drive just isn't there. But none the less, this is a real con plaguing us in fight land.

Con2: A lot of cage fighters believe that because we do the NHB thing, that we're invicible (you know, walking through malls and thinking everytime you pass by a bigger person, "Oh, I could kick his ass". Yeah, I'm not the only one, am I?) So, a false sense of toughness and an ego that only Godzilla should have.

Ok, on to pros, again, if you feel I left any out, feel free to troll, I mean chime in;-)

Pro 1: There's no words that can describe that feeling a few hours before a match. Fear? Anticipation? Whatever it may be, each and every one of us fighters overcome it and climb into that ring with another guy who's looking to kick our asses. I tell folks that street fighting is so much easier mentally, because it happens so quick, you have no time to think, only react. Well, with a cage fight, you have sometimes months to think about getting a possible ass kicking.

Pro 2: We are athletes. Whether natural or not, we train like hell to achieve whatever results we strive for. That takes a lot of mental determination for those of us who have to work a full day, and then go to the gym for at LEAST 2 more hours of sparring, weightlifting, or what have you. An athlete is something that even most soldiers are not, and for that, I have to give a 1/2 more pro on this one.

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Ok, last one, the grimmy, gritty, stinking arsed prisoner. Note: I'm not including diaper stains like molesters, rapists, or just everyday lowly thieves. No, this is for the nicer ones; the traffickers doing life, murderers, manslaughtering bastards out there.

Con 1: They are cons. That word brings it's cousin "cowardice". Now, I'm not saying killing 85 people makes you a coward, but no matter the crime, they had to be afraid to deal with the everyday workings of living in society. They were in a sense too cowardly to abid by the laws of man, and decided to "cop out" and do it the "easy" way. (You all know that it is ten times easier to just snap the neck of some jerk talking crap, than it is to be a man and just let it go)

Con 2: Again, they are cons. They try to con there way into the easiest position in life possible, even on the inside. I of course speak from first person, because I did 7yrs for manslaughter in Oklahoma from '91' to '98', and while I was in, I did a lot of conning. Being a con is also a form of cowardice and coppping out.

Pro 1: Some are crazy strong. Trained in hand-to-hand or not, fighting one of those bastards was not a situation you'd ever want to be in. Even the fags were strong as oxen (if my politically incorrectness bothers you, then just remembers this, God still loves you, but the rest of us don't;-) Ok, anyway, yeah, I have personally met many cats in jail that pound for pound were easily some of the strongest guys on earth, or Krypton.

Pro2 : The mentality in Medium security and above is truly kill or be killed. I remember seeing a guy at Central Control (the guards station) sitting down on a bench, literally holding in his intestines because he had been stabbed so many times. The reason? He had stolen a 49 cent Ramen noodle soup from someone. Yeah, he died. And that fear of kill or killing looms over most prisoners on a 24/7 basis. 

As a soldier, while they are at war, they fear being shot, but at least they know the people they are bunking with aren't the ones that're gonna do it.   As fighters, we expirence a fraction of this fear when stepping into the ring, but thats only about once every month or so.  So, in this last since, I truly believe that the prisoner, doing hard time, who hasn't gotten "punked out" and hasn't taken his/her own life is braver and mentally tougher than both the soldier and fighter put together.  This is not saying who's the better fighter, or better person (obviously) just given the situation, who has to dig the deepest just to survive on a daily basis.

Ok trolls, go to work...and make some toys for Santa when you're finished here!!

Spidey

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ttt

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After watching Gladiator, I always wondered why I did not fight more often. The stakes are so much lower and there is only pride to lose. The soldier has 10x the balls as mma. Even in jail you have some sanctuary. I cojnsider myself a patriot, but I would not join the army as I have a fear of dying. If we were invaded I would take up arms, but that is because if my family, otherwise I will leave it to the brave souls that defend us today. Best wishes to our troops.

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A soldier without question,m.m.a. is a game.

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I nominate ghille, Jason Hathaway, whom is both. He is not afraid to fight anyone and is headed BACK to Iraq very soon.

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TOUGH QUESTION. FIRST OFF I AM A SOLDIER, BUT I HAVE NEVER BEEN TO WAR SO I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THEM. BOTTOM LINE. YOU NAILED IT ON THE HEAD WITH COMBATIVES. I BEAT THESE GUYS UP ON A REGULAR BASIS. SO THE MENTAL SKILL GOES TO THE PROS. THEY PUSH THEMSELVES, WHILE WE ARE PUSHED BY OUR LEADERS. SO KUDOS TO THEM. BRAVERY, ON THE OTHER HAND? WELL WHILE I WANT TO TAKE NOTHING AWAY FROM THE REAL FIGHTERS, SOLDIERS HANDS DOWN. IVE NEVER SERVED WITH MORE PROUD, MORE DEDICATED PEOPLE IN MY LIFE. YOU SAID IT RIGHT IN YOUR FIRST POST, THEY PULL THEIR JOB. BE PROUD. I AM. THIS IS ACTUALLY AGOOD QUESTION. CAGE FIGHTING, HANDS DOWN TO THE PRO'S. A WAR, OUR SOLDIERS ARE BY FAR THE BEST IN THE WORLD, AND I AM HAPPY TO STAND NEXT TO EVEN THE DUMBEST OF "PRIVATES". wHY? THEY KNOW WHY

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First, you can not compare the two; soldiers and mma fighters.

An MMA fighter has one thing to train for, fighting. So, to compare the hand to hand fighting skills of a soldier and a pro fighter is ignorant. How about we compare the courage and skill it takes for a soldier to enter and clear a building and rooms?

Let's touch on this a little more. How many MMA fighters have died in the ring or in training? I can count them on my hands and toes probably. Now, how many soldiers have died in the last year entering and clearing rooms? Not even a close comparison.

To touch on it further, I am a Infantry Platoon Sergeant (airborne ranger qualified sergeant first class and have years of experience in door kicking and clearing rooms, would consider myself a subject matter expert in battle drill #6 and and easily flow into a room clear the fatal funnel, collapse my sector and move to my point of domination)and I am a very experienced blue in BJJ and have a year in boxing and some hapkido and thai also. While I am not at a pro's level in fighting in a cage, I would much rather get in the cage with vanderlei silvia than enter a room. The odds of me losing more than a little pride is much greater, my life hangs in the balance.

Room clearing is one battle drill. Should I dicuss the other seven battle drills or Raids, Ambushes, Recons, Air Field Seizures, Pathfinder Operations, Sniper Operations, etc... All of which I have to be proficiant in.

I also am required to be proficient in combatives and have train my soldiers to to three times a week.

Notice I said I am not as proficient as a pro fighter in a cage? That is because a good combatives program after it has developed basics incorporates things that are applicable on the battlefield; groins strikes, throat strikes, small joint manipulation, etc... as well as fighting in full gear(FLC, kevlar helmet, kevlar vest, weapon, etc...)

I also can run 5 miles in about 33 minutes and have about ten soldiers in my platoon that can beat me.

I take it as an insult to my professionalism to compare the two. I would never talk down to a pro fighter because I respect what you do and you show more dedication and nuts than most of the civillians out there but we are not even close to being the same.

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I have to Second what Rory said. Jason is a total badass

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nice Post KILLA.

TT

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Well said trainedkilla. Funny thing is that Jason Hathaway has said he gets more scared entering the ring or cage then he does going into combat. I didn't even know how to respond to that when he said it.

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Thanx

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I'm agreeing with mucho on this thread. Hathaway is still
young as a fighter but boy is he the epitome of the word.
Steppin up to guys like Nuri Shakir on short notice, heading
back overseas and not bitching bout it once...goddamn

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Hey what's up Rory, and Joe, I guess I'll weigh in, fighting in a ring or cage is more scarey for me because it's just you in there, when you are soldiering there are your men, your brothers on either side of you or behind you that are counting on you to do your job, and if you don't they don't come home, so there is no question about what your going to do even if it means you don't get to go home. and by the way, there are tons of guys out there that I consider way braver than anything I've ever done. but it means alot to me that you guys say that kind of thing.

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Good post TK, I concur. This coming from another platoon sergeant in a specialized unit.

My only comment is this: "YOU NAILED IT ON THE HEAD WITH COMBATIVES. I BEAT THESE GUYS UP ON A REGULAR BASIS"

I honestly hope you aren't referring to the Combatives center personnel at Ft. Benning. I trained there for three years and would have to say there were VERY few that could beat us up on a regular basis. Before I left, there was a brown belt, four purples, and a bunch of very good blues, not to mention a few pro fighters that trained with us regularly, like Kevin Jordan (Shaman on the UG).

If you are referring to the normal Skill level one, two or even three instructor, think of it like this: The classes are just that, classes. Skill level one is one week long. Level two is two weeks and level three is four weeks (long by Army school standards). Even is someone went to level 1,2,and 3 consecutively, for a whopping total of seven weeks, he has probably the skill of a decent white belt when he leaves the course. Then it is upon him to seek further knowledge and stay with the sport. And then there might be things like training or war that sometimes get in the way.

The Army is not trying to make everyone Rickson Gracie. The soldiers are given the basics to survive on the battlefield-so what if they can't pull off Marcelo's latest X guard sweep. Of course there will be a few very good guys, but the average infantryman is usually busy and doesn't have much time for additional training unless he sacrifices family time or personal time.

Then there are units that have good combatives programs. My platoon trains AT LEAST once a week, sometimes two or three times. I am usually considered by most that know me a very technical purple belt (from Jacare), so I guarantee that at least MY guys get good technique when we are afforded the time to train.

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 I'm not trying to take anything away from our soldiers at all Trainedkilla.  I was with 1st FSSG, and went over with Marines to help out in Tikrit a few tics ago. So, yes, clearing a room is hella more dangerous than getting into a cage. And although i was able to smash most of the SEALS that I sparred with has nothing to do with their ability to get the job done quickly and proficiently.  Thats why they and all other Spec Forces out their deserve the title of "Elite Soldiers".   This post was to compare some mental and physical aspects; mostly mental.  But it's cool, thats why I put it up, for different opinions.    

I've been in wartime, been to jail, and  am fighter, but i still wouldn't count myself in the big time bravery catagory because their are many soldiers, fighters, and even jailbirds doing life that have a lot more heart than me.  Hell, when asked to workout on the swims off Coronado with some SEAL members, I was afraid to go because I'm so deathly afraid of sharks.  Thats the truth, so kuddos to all the above.

Spidey

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